дДНК -тестирование Пшемыслидов и Пястов

[Semargl]

Родственниками могут быть R1a1a1b1a1a1c~ R-AMM268 - т.е. Пястами.

Видимо, это всё тот же недотипированный R-YP619 (с прицелом на YP444).

YP619 у PCA0663 не прочитан. YP444- и Y495529-.
Ниже L1029 у него есть два плюса, которые теоретически могут позиционировать его на более низкий субклад.
YP6048+ - предполагает позиционирование в субклад R-YP6048, но выше в субкладе R-FGCLR618 снип FGCLR618 не прочитан, а снип Y514500-. То есть имеем противоречие и либо YP6048+ либо Y514500- являются ложными.
FGC2627+ - предполагает позиционирование в субклад R-Y2912. Выше, в субкладе R-YP263 оба снипа не прочитаны.

Так что в данном случае бОльшая вероятность что PCA0663 находится в R-Y2912* с тремя польскими образцами. Но не стоит сбрасывать со счета и вариант с R-YP6048. К сожалению деградация древней ДНК часто не дает спозиционировать образец со 100% уверенностью.

[Farroukh]

Я так понимаю, качество образцов исключает возможность их иипорта в Yfull?

[Semargl]

Я так понимаю, качество образцов исключает возможность их иипорта в Yfull?

так они на дереве есть. повисят, может и удалим. была бы ясность хотя бы от авторов статьи в том какой файл какому образцу принадлежит..
PCA0620 R-CTS11962 и ниже сплошные пропуски. У него даже мито норм не определилось.

[Farroukh]

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS11962/
Вижу их. Небольшая просьба обозначить их, как и всех остальных -  указав страну (Польша) и датировку останков дДНК.

[Kambic]

Scaled G-25

Код: [Выделить]

Polish:PCA0251,0.129758,0.128972,0.082589,0.063954,0.040315,0.024542,0.00094,0.006,-0.001227,-0.020593,0.002273,-0.009442,0.017245,0.029314,-0.005157,-0.00411,0.007562,-0.002154,-0.000126,-0.003001,-0.002496,-0.001113,0.002218,0.009399,-0.004191
Polish:PCA0252B,0.125205,0.094444,0.075801,0.073967,0.040931,0.012829,-0.00047,0.013846,-0.008999,-0.027882,-0.000487,-0.01094,0.008771,0.022708,-0.002036,0.016839,0.017211,0.008108,0.00176,0.004377,0.01148,-0.000989,0.01405,-0.007109,0.010538
Polish:PCA0573,0.122929,0.129988,0.059962,0.043282,0.035391,0.023148,0.021856,0.015692,0.008795,-0.009112,-0.000325,-0.006744,0.000892,-0.000963,0.013436,0.011535,0.003651,-0.001267,0.018855,0.004127,0.008235,-0.008656,-0.010106,0.001687,-0.00934
Polish:PCA0573B,0.125205,0.142174,0.052797,0.033915,0.038161,0.019243,0.00047,-0.003,0.011249,-0.017859,-0.007795,0.004796,-0.004311,-0.005643,0.01045,0.019888,0.001825,-0.006841,0.003142,0.012631,0.007112,0.013602,0.007395,0.010001,-0.002275
Polish:PCA0574,0.125205,0.13405,0.068259,0.07106,0.041854,0.039602,0.00705,-0.002538,0.005522,-0.020593,0.015102,0.005095,-0.004014,0.011973,0.013843,0.003315,-0.018645,0.006461,-0.008547,0.037643,-0.004118,-0.006801,0.006779,0.00253,0.003353
Polish:PCA0574B,0.114961,0.117801,0.061471,0.067507,0.019388,0.018965,-0.00376,0.01823,-0.0045,-0.005832,0.001786,-0.010641,-0.006095,0.017478,-0.016286,-0.009281,0.00352,0.009248,0.017095,0.003877,-0.024582,-0.000124,0.00986,-0.003494,0.009221
Polish:PCA0617,0.118376,0.13405,0.064865,0.050711,0.050471,0.02008,0.004935,0.016384,0.005931,-0.009841,-0.012666,-0.003897,0.006244,0.016515,-0.011265,0.001326,-0.002999,0.007348,-0.00905,0.005002,-0.006863,-0.003957,0.008381,0.01458,-0.010418
Polish:PCA0618,0.130897,0.123895,0.067882,0.04199,0.035083,0.028726,0.00893,0.012923,0.001023,-0.002005,-0.001461,-0.010341,0.010555,0.016515,0.004072,0.003845,-0.014473,0.007601,0.011941,-0.001626,-0.000125,-0.009398,0.005423,-0.000602,0.003952
Polish:PCA0620,0.124067,0.131003,0.054682,0.044251,0.038776,0.014223,0.010105,0.011307,0.001227,-0.005285,-0.000974,-3e-04,-0.004906,0.014863,0.003393,0.001061,0.007953,-0.001774,0.00993,-0.007379,-0.003119,0.002102,0.010599,0.007109,-0.002994
Polish:PCA0643,0.099026,0.094444,0.047517,0.031331,0.020927,0.019801,0.019506,0.003231,-0.021884,-0.02278,-0.012829,0.014687,-0.001933,-0.010459,0.010043,0.02559,0.014864,0.005194,0.002891,0.001876,-0.004367,-0.001855,0.001972,0.005784,0.003233
Polish:PCA0644,0.142279,0.114755,0.069767,0.052649,0.028313,0.035419,-0.00893,0.010384,0.003272,-0.020775,0.014777,-0.002997,0.018583,0.004954,-0.031351,-0.005569,-0.001825,-0.00038,-0.013701,-0.006628,0.004742,0.003957,0.010723,0.002048,0.012214
Polish:PCA0645,0.135449,0.117801,0.064111,0.061693,0.023697,0.029005,-0.00047,0.001154,0.003477,-0.025878,0.001786,-0.021281,0.013082,0.026011,0.0076,-0.006497,-0.023469,0.004307,-0.005028,-0.016883,0.004243,0.027698,0.000739,-0.00482,-0.010059
Polish:PCA0648,0.097888,0.101553,0.063356,0.044574,0.032314,0.033746,0.00517,0.005077,0.007976,-0.010023,0.004547,0.00015,0.020664,0.020781,-0.010586,-0.016441,-0.030771,-0.00152,0.020112,0.002001,-0.01148,0.004204,-0.012448,-0.006025,-0.005748
Polish:PCA0649,0.120652,0.099522,0.054682,0.049419,0.025235,0.026774,-0.00094,-0.000231,-0.01084,-0.016766,0.002273,-0.005545,0.008325,0.020919,-0.008143,-0.003978,-0.011604,0.011529,0.004274,-0.007879,-0.018842,0.00272,0.007395,-0.006748,-0.009221
Polish:PCA0657,0.114961,0.110693,0.059208,0.019703,0.024928,0.019801,0.011986,0.013615,0.018612,-0.016037,-0.018675,-0.020382,-0.009514,0.018717,-0.02728,-0.005304,-0.001825,0.014696,-0.005782,0.008879,-0.009483,-0.000247,0.016022,-0.001566,0.01892
Polish:PCA0660,0.121791,0.089367,0.047517,0.045866,0.028928,0.02259,0.00329,0.023307,-0.014726,-0.026971,-0.004547,-0.013638,0.014569,0.026148,-0.005972,-0.015248,-0.007823,-0.004561,0.001383,0.003001,0.006239,0.007172,0.01479,-0.013134,0.013891
Polish:PCA0663,0.124067,0.123895,0.058831,0.076551,0.047393,0.017291,0.002115,0.015692,0.006136,-0.030251,-0.00065,-0.003597,0.00773,0.03413,-0.003257,-0.008884,-0.017211,-0.019257,-0.000628,-0.004252,-0.011979,-0.003339,-0.013064,-0.001687,0.000718


Raw

Polish:PCA0251,0.0114,0.0127,0.0219,0.0198,0.0131,0.0088,0.0004,0.0026,-0.0006,-0.0113,0.0014,-0.0063,0.0116,0.0213,-0.0038,-0.0031,0.0058,-0.0017,-0.0001,-0.0024,-0.002,-0.0009,0.0018,0.0078,-0.0035
Polish:PCA0252B,0.011,0.0093,0.0201,0.0229,0.0133,0.0046,-0.0002,0.006,-0.0044,-0.0153,-0.0003,-0.0073,0.0059,0.0165,-0.0015,0.0127,0.0132,0.0064,0.0014,0.0035,0.0092,-0.0008,0.0114,-0.0059,0.0088
Polish:PCA0573,0.0108,0.0128,0.0159,0.0134,0.0115,0.0083,0.0093,0.0068,0.0043,-0.005,-0.0002,-0.0045,0.0006,-0.0007,0.0099,0.0087,0.0028,-0.001,0.015,0.0033,0.0066,-0.007,-0.0082,0.0014,-0.0078
Polish:PCA0573B,0.011,0.014,0.014,0.0105,0.0124,0.0069,0.0002,-0.0013,0.0055,-0.0098,-0.0048,0.0032,-0.0029,-0.0041,0.0077,0.015,0.0014,-0.0054,0.0025,0.0101,0.0057,0.011,0.006,0.0083,-0.0019
Polish:PCA0574,0.011,0.0132,0.0181,0.022,0.0136,0.0142,0.003,-0.0011,0.0027,-0.0113,0.0093,0.0034,-0.0027,0.0087,0.0102,0.0025,-0.0143,0.0051,-0.0068,0.0301,-0.0033,-0.0055,0.0055,0.0021,0.0028
Polish:PCA0574B,0.0101,0.0116,0.0163,0.0209,0.0063,0.0068,-0.0016,0.0079,-0.0022,-0.0032,0.0011,-0.0071,-0.0041,0.0127,-0.012,-0.007,0.0027,0.0073,0.0136,0.0031,-0.0197,-0.0001,0.008,-0.0029,0.0077
Polish:PCA0617,0.0104,0.0132,0.0172,0.0157,0.0164,0.0072,0.0021,0.0071,0.0029,-0.0054,-0.0078,-0.0026,0.0042,0.012,-0.0083,0.001,-0.0023,0.0058,-0.0072,0.004,-0.0055,-0.0032,0.0068,0.0121,-0.0087
Polish:PCA0618,0.0115,0.0122,0.018,0.013,0.0114,0.0103,0.0038,0.0056,0.0005,-0.0011,-0.0009,-0.0069,0.0071,0.012,0.003,0.0029,-0.0111,0.006,0.0095,-0.0013,-0.0001,-0.0076,0.0044,-0.0005,0.0033
Polish:PCA0620,0.0109,0.0129,0.0145,0.0137,0.0126,0.0051,0.0043,0.0049,0.0006,-0.0029,-0.0006,-0.0002,-0.0033,0.0108,0.0025,0.0008,0.0061,-0.0014,0.0079,-0.0059,-0.0025,0.0017,0.0086,0.0059,-0.0025
Polish:PCA0643,0.0087,0.0093,0.0126,0.0097,0.0068,0.0071,0.0083,0.0014,-0.0107,-0.0125,-0.0079,0.0098,-0.0013,-0.0076,0.0074,0.0193,0.0114,0.0041,0.0023,0.0015,-0.0035,-0.0015,0.0016,0.0048,0.0027
Polish:PCA0644,0.0125,0.0113,0.0185,0.0163,0.0092,0.0127,-0.0038,0.0045,0.0016,-0.0114,0.0091,-0.002,0.0125,0.0036,-0.0231,-0.0042,-0.0014,-0.0003,-0.0109,-0.0053,0.0038,0.0032,0.0087,0.0017,0.0102
Polish:PCA0645,0.0119,0.0116,0.017,0.0191,0.0077,0.0104,-0.0002,0.0005,0.0017,-0.0142,0.0011,-0.0142,0.0088,0.0189,0.0056,-0.0049,-0.018,0.0034,-0.004,-0.0135,0.0034,0.0224,0.0006,-0.004,-0.0084
Polish:PCA0648,0.0086,0.01,0.0168,0.0138,0.0105,0.0121,0.0022,0.0022,0.0039,-0.0055,0.0028,0.0001,0.0139,0.0151,-0.0078,-0.0124,-0.0236,-0.0012,0.016,0.0016,-0.0092,0.0034,-0.0101,-0.005,-0.0048
Polish:PCA0649,0.0106,0.0098,0.0145,0.0153,0.0082,0.0096,-0.0004,-0.0001,-0.0053,-0.0092,0.0014,-0.0037,0.0056,0.0152,-0.006,-0.003,-0.0089,0.0091,0.0034,-0.0063,-0.0151,0.0022,0.006,-0.0056,-0.0077
Polish:PCA0657,0.0101,0.0109,0.0157,0.0061,0.0081,0.0071,0.0051,0.0059,0.0091,-0.0088,-0.0115,-0.0136,-0.0064,0.0136,-0.0201,-0.004,-0.0014,0.0116,-0.0046,0.0071,-0.0076,-0.0002,0.013,-0.0013,0.0158
Polish:PCA0660,0.0107,0.0088,0.0126,0.0142,0.0094,0.0081,0.0014,0.0101,-0.0072,-0.0148,-0.0028,-0.0091,0.0098,0.019,-0.0044,-0.0115,-0.006,-0.0036,0.0011,0.0024,0.005,0.0058,0.012,-0.0109,0.0116
Polish:PCA0663,0.0109,0.0122,0.0156,0.0237,0.0154,0.0062,0.0009,0.0068,0.003,-0.0166,-0.0004,-0.0024,0.0052,0.0248,-0.0024,-0.0067,-0.0132,-0.0152,-0.0005,-0.0034,-0.0096,-0.0027,-0.0106,-0.0014,0.0006


[Yurgan]

Говорят, достоверные Пясты все таки R1b - 17 образцов.

[Oxon]

А где говорят?  Где почитать и посмотреть на них?  Спасибо

[Yurgan]

Выделяется странная группа - близки по компонентам между собой, но самые близкие к ним крымские и литовские татары.

По Y -  R1b

У Пястов из Плоцка есть предки Рюриковичи, Арпады и немецкие династии


У Болеслава Мазовецкого большая часть предков -Рюриковичи а прабабушка половчанка

У него должна быть необычная Мито.

По половецкой линии он троюродный брат Дмитрия Александровича

[Yurgan]

А где говорят?  Где почитать и посмотреть на них?  Спасибо

В фэйсбуке

[carola]

Выделяется странная группа - близки по компонентам между собой, но самые близкие к ним крымские и литовские татары.

Сарматы... в некотором смысле:-)

[Farroukh]

Там был R1b2b / Y23412 (= R-PH200), неужели они?

[пенелопа]

Проект называется Genetic portrait of the Piast Dynasty

А получился не портрет, а какой-то винегрет

Так ведь на неверных жен все свалили... 

[Yurgan]

R1b-S747
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L1335/
https://discover.familytreedna.com/y-dna/R-L1335/tree

Точно или предположительно? А то вижу только статью в польской газете

[скучающий]

У большинства Пястов гапла, характерная для Шотландии (пикты?). Хотя есть вероятность некорректного типирования - полная цепочка только у одного образца PIAST11.

[Farroukh]

Посмотрел ветвь PIAST11 - R-S747 (L1335), никаких намёков на живые польские линии