Re: Результаты исследований дДНК (обсуждение)

[Alone Coder]

"The MPI publication by Gretzinger et al. on Slavic migrations will be published this year, depending on the peer review progress. The MPI has e.g. samples from Western Ukraine from the 7th and 8th century, the earliest inhumations available plus also some data from Belarus (!) that are Baltic/Slavic like.
In a nutshell, they further postulate Belarus/Northern Ukraine as starting point of the Slavic migration with a population turnover of approx. 93 % in Poland and 85 % in Eastern Germany."

Это венгры им заплатили.. Но Назин не сдается и правда восторжествует!

Ключевое слово "Baltic/Slavic like". Короче, нашли очередные следы лесных балтов.

[FenriR]

У немцев есть поговорка
осси состоят на 50 % из говна, а весси на 100

поговорка баварская?)))

[Georg]

У немцев есть поговорка
осси состоят на 50 % из говна, а весси на 100

поговорка баварская?)))

Не знаю. Просто запомнилась. Ни в каком поиске уже не могу найти.
Но я шутил в предположительном контексте, что у осси много славян, поэтому г меньше

[kardes]

Отслеживание распространения кельтских языков с использованием древней геномики.
Hugh McColl- Kristian Kristiansen,Martin Sikora1, Eske Willerslev1 n posted March 1, 2025.
Аннотация
Кельтские языки, включая ирландский, шотландский гэльский, валлийский и бретонский, сегодня ограничены североевропейским атлантическим побережьем. Однако между 3 и 2 тысячами лет до настоящего времени (BP) кельтский был широко распространен в большей части Европы. Хотя его часто связывают с популяциями, связанными с культурой колоколовидных кубков, распространение этого выдающегося индоевропейского языкового кластера остается спорным1–7. Предыдущие геномные исследования были сосредоточены на его появлении в определенных регионах: Британии8, Иберии9 и Юго-Западной Германии10.

Здесь мы используем новые геномные данные из Европы бронзового и железного веков для изучения истории населения исторически кельтоязычных регионов и проверяем различные лингвистические теории о происхождении и раннем распространении кельтских языков. Мы выявляем широкое демографическое влияние центральноевропейской культуры полей погребальных урн. Мы обнаружили, что родословная, связанная с подгруппой Кновиз в Карпатском бассейне, сформировалась между 4–3,2 тыс. лет назад и впоследствии распространилась по большей части Западной Европы между 3,2 и 2,8 тыс. лет назад. Эта родословная далее сохранилась в культуре Гальштата во Франции, Германии и Австрии, повлияв на Британию 2,8 тыс. лет назад и на Иберию 2,5 тыс. лет назад. Эти результаты подтверждают модели восточно-центрального, а не западноевропейского центра распространения для основного компонента всех засвидетельствованных кельтских языков. Наше исследование в очередной раз демонстрирует силу геномики древних популяций в решении давних споров в исторической лингвистике.

Данные о последовательностях для новых 578 древних геномов можно найти в ENA The public 4009 ancient genomes included in the dataset are listed in Supplementary Table S1.1, with additional details provided in Supplementary Note S4 of the accompanying paper 3

[пенелопа]

Убитые степняками воины. Ханьская крепость.
https://nplus1.ru/news/2025/02/24/bayanbulag
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440325000330?via%3Dihub

Из 14 отобранных образцов палеогенетики успешно секвенировали древнюю ДНК, хотя и с низким покрытием. Генетический анализ подтвердил, что в могиле покоились только мужчины. В 12 случаях исследователи определили их Y-хромосомные гаплогруппы. Так, четыре человека были носителями отцовских линий, относящихся к гаплогруппе O2a2b1a1a-F8, а остальные — к C2b1a1a1a-M407, N1a2a1a-F1998, O1b1a2b-Z24433, O2a2b1a2-F114 и Q1a1a1a-M120. По данным исследователей, сегодня Y-хромосомная гаплогруппа C2v1a1a1a-M407 в основном встречается у мужского населения, проживающего на юге Сибири и в Восточной Азии, в то время как остальные — главным образом среди восточных азиатов, включая ханьцев.

Что касается митохондриальных гаплотипов, то ученые определили, что все 14 проанализированных индивидов были носителями материнских линий, относящихся к разным митохондриальным гаплогруппам. Почти две трети их них, по словам генетиков, ассоциированы с популяциями Северо-Восточной Азии и встречаются у современных ханьцев.

[пенелопа]

Двойняшки из погребения в нынешней Хорватии.
https://nplus1.ru/news/2025/03/03/double-burial-of-fraternal-twins
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352409X25001038?via%3Dihub

[пенелопа]

дДНК из Польши. Культура Злота. https://nplus1.ru/news/2025/03/04/sadowie-cemetery

Палеогенетики выделили ДНК из останков этих людей, причем в пяти из шести случаев ее было достаточно для различных анализов (единственным исключением был образец взрослого мужчины 20–22 лет). Четверо из пяти людей оказались носителями одной и той же митохондриальной гаплогруппы H5a1. У пятого человека (мужчины 25–30 лет) ученые определили митохондриальную гаплогруппу U5a2a2a. Кроме того, у всех четверых мужчин, чья ДНК была пригодна для анализа, они выявили одну и ту же Y-хромосомную гаплогруппу I2a1b1a2b1. Генетический анализ также показал, что как минимум трое из этих людей были близкими родственниками. Так, родство первой степени ученые определили между женщиной, юношей и мужчиной 18–20 лет. Ответить на вопрос, кем конкретно приходились друг другу эти люди, оказалось сложно, однако ученые отметили, что, скорее всего, юноша и молодой мужчина были родными братьями.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0305440325000342?via%3Dihub

[FenriR]

В Х (бывшем твиттере) пишут, что в новых лекциях Института Макса-Планка (MPI) отправной точкой славянских миграций считают Беларусь/северную Украину.
При этом, миграции заместили около 95% генофонда до-славянского населения Польши и до 85%  восточной Германии

"The MPI publication by Gretzinger et al. on Slavic migrations will be published this year, depending on the peer review progress. The MPI has e.g. samples from Western Ukraine from the 7th and 8th century, the earliest inhumations available plus also some data from Belarus (!) that are Baltic/Slavic like.
In a nutshell, they further postulate Belarus/Northern Ukraine as starting point of the Slavic migration with a population turnover of approx. 93 % in Poland and 85 % in Eastern Germany."

презентация, с 28ой минуты
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npc5Q2BoGRI&ab_channel=VUMedicinosfakultetas

[korn]

Ну и. как это понять? Отправная точка Полесье, а в презентации набросы Шпайделя?

Предыдущее исследование не смогло отвергнуть преемственность в родословной от лиц, связанных с Вельбарком, к более поздним средневековым лицам из похожего региона. С улучшенной мощностью Twigstats модели преемственности решительно отвергаются, при этом ни одна модель с одним источником любой предшествующей группы железного века или бронзового века не обеспечивает разумного соответствия для средневековых лиц ( P  ≪  1 × 10 −32 ). Вместо этого большинство лиц из средневековой Польши можно смоделировать только как смесь предков, связанных с римским железным веком Литвы, что похоже на предков лиц из Польши среднего и позднего бронзового века (44%, 95% доверительный интервал 36–51%), компонент предков, связанный с венгерскими скифами или словацкими латенцами (49%, 95% доверительный интервал 41–57%) и потенциально компонент меньшинства предков, связанных с сарматами с Кавказа ( P  = 0,13) (рис. 2c ). Четыре из двенадцати человек из средневековой Польши, трое из которых из поздней эпохи викингов, несли обнаруживаемую скандинавскую родословную. Часть родословной, обнаруженной у людей из поздней средневековой Польши, могла сохраняться в конце первого тысячелетия н. Э. в кремационной части населения, но, независимо от этого, это указывает на масштабную трансформацию родословной в средневековой Польше (рис. 3a ). Будущие данные могут пролить свет на то, в какой степени это отражает влияние групп, говорящих на славянских языках в регионе.

[kardes]

Пунические народы были генетически разнообразны и практически не имели левантийских предков.
Морская финикийская цивилизация из Леванта преобразила все Средиземноморье в первом тысячелетии до н. э. Однако масштабы перемещения людей между левантийской финикийской родиной и финикийско-пуническими поселениями в центральном и западном Средиземноморье были неясны из-за отсутствия комплексных исследований древней ДНК. Мы получили данные по всему геному 210 человек, включая 196 из 14 мест, традиционно идентифицируемых как финикийские и пунические в Леванте, Северной Африке, Иберии, Сицилии, Сардинии и Ибице, и человека раннего железного века из Алжира. Левантийские финикийцы внесли небольшой генетический вклад в людей, живших в пунических поселениях в центральном и западном Средиземноморье между 6 и 2 веками до н. э., несмотря на многочисленные археологические свидетельства сильных культурных, исторических, языковых и религиозных связей. Вместо этого эти наследники левантийской финикийской культуры получили большую часть своей родословной от популяций с генетическим профилем, похожим на профиль Сицилии и Эгейского моря. Большая часть оставшейся родословной происходит из Северной Африки, что отражает растущее влияние Карфагена; однако, это был меньшинство предков во всех исследованных местах, включая сам Карфаген. Различные пунические места в центральном и западном Средиземноморье демонстрируют схожие образцы высокого генетического разнообразия. Мы также обнаруживаем генетические связи по всему Средиземноморью, что отражает общие демографические процессы, формирующие популяции во всем пуническом мире.
I11805    Israel    109    108    (G-Z6647)G-Y34352(1/1)>(G-Z6554)G-Z6553(4/4)  G2а1а 
I22093    Italy     23     23    G(8/8)
I21987    Italy     34     33    G(8/8)
I22090    Italy     24     24    G-P303(2/2)
I21857    Italy    712    707    (G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(11/11)
I21850    Italy    785    781    (G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(13/13)
I7261     Italy    269    269    (G-CTS8476)G-Z724(4/4)>G-Y280(0/0)>(G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(6/6)
I22115    Italy    793    789    (G-Z3440)G-Y280(1/1)>(G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(10/10)
I22238    Italy    665    660    G-Y1408(10/10)
I24196    Tunisia    424    422    G-L166(3/3)>(G-FGC5712)G-Z6494(2/2)
I35344    Tunisia    204    200    G-L497(5/5)
I24208    Tunisia    902    899    G-PF3345(1/1)>(G-FTB86)G-FTA56155(3/3)
I12844    Italy    881    877    R-Z2123(2/2)

Код: [Выделить]

I11788    Israel    186    185    E-V12(3/3)
I11794    Israel    448    445    E-CTS6667(2/2)
I22260    Israel    497    493    (E-FTA52721)E-Y435821,E-Y435971(6/6)
I22253    Israel    178    177    E-V22(4/4)
I11805    Israel    109    108    (G-Z6647)G-Y34352(1/1)>(G-Z6554)G-Z6553(4/4)
I22254    Israel    373    370    (J-Z18297)J-Y15152(2/2)
I21194    Italy    174    173    (C-Z29332)C-Y10492(7/7)>(C-BY44479)C-Y10490(4/4)
I19190    Italy     35     34    E(2/2)
I21195    Italy    559    555    (E-BY8832)E-Z21286(1/1)>E-BY8823(0/0)>(E-BY8819)E-Y188983,E-Y189114,E-BY8836(2/3)
I12848    Italy    754    751    (E-CTS8814)E-Z1057(1/1)>(E-CTS5856)E-CTS1273 (3/3)
I22118    Italy    822    819    (E-FT209268)E-Y191061(5/5)
I22122    Italy    652    650    E-L1250(1/1)>(E-FT209268)E-Y191061(2/2)
I21971    Italy     48     48    E-L19(5/5)
I24556    Italy    689    686    (E-FT397837)E-Y181645(2/2)
I24554    Italy    704    700    E-Y37089(1/1)>(E-FT54477)E-Y49668(7/7)
I22093    Italy     23     23    G(8/8)
I21987    Italy     34     33    G(8/8)
I22090    Italy     24     24    G-P303(2/2)
I21857    Italy    712    707    (G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(11/11)
I21850    Italy    785    781    (G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(13/13)
I7261     Italy    269    269    (G-CTS8476)G-Z724(4/4)>G-Y280(0/0)>(G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(6/6)
I22115    Italy    793    789    (G-Z3440)G-Y280(1/1)>(G-CTS5990)G-Z1903,G-Y1408(10/10)
I22238    Italy    665    660    G-Y1408(10/10)
I22114    Italy    750    744    (I-M253)I1,I-L121(39/41)
I19194    Italy    114    113    (I-CTS413)I-L158(3/3)
I22091    Italy     81     81    (I-SK1271)I-Y16679(1/1)>(I-SK1270)I-Y16419(4/4)
I22119    Italy    830    827    J-ZS6056(3/3)
I7265     Italy    325    323    (J-ZS6602)J-ZS6638,J-Y169874(2/2)>(J-ZS6592)J-ZS6592,J-ZS6637(4/8)
I21856    Italy    477    474    J-Z1828(17/17)
I22232    Italy    330    324    J-Z1847(2/2)
I12665    Italy    663    658    (J-SK1336)J-Y15913(3/3)>(J-BY41147)(5/12)
I21853    Italy    744    743    (J-BY759)J-Y14434,J-Z28529(8/8)>(J-PF7413)J-Y14439 (2/2)
I22095    Italy    694    692    J-Y29673(7/7)>(J-FT94007)J-Y29678(5/5)
I4798     Italy    790    785    J-L283(16/17)
I24671    Italy    701    697    J-Z597(1/1)>J-Z2507 (2/2)
I21197    Italy    448    446    L-L595(17/17)
I24679    Italy    478    475    (R-PF6162)R-Z645(2/2)
I12844    Italy    881    877    R-Z2123(2/2)
I7650     Italy     44     43    R-M269(4/4)
I22241    Italy    652    648    R-M269(41/42)
I24555    Italy    890    888    R-L52(4/4)
I22117    Italy    801    800    (R-P310)R-L52(3/3)>(R-L151)R-PF6538,R-L151 (2/2)
I24672    Italy    685    683    (R-P310)R-L52(3/3)>(R-L151)R-PF6538,R-L151 (3/3)
I12846    Italy    834    829    (R-P310)R-L52(4/4)>(R-L151)R-PF6538,R-L151 (2/2)
I21964    Italy    779    778    (R-P310)R-L52(4/4)>(R-L151)R-PF6538,R-L151 (2/2)
I21855    Italy    771    768    (R-CTS11874)R-Y17621(2/2)(2/2)
I21858    Italy    790    788    (R-Z274)R-Z272(2/2)>R-Z209(3/3)
I24674    Italy    694    690    R-Z202(2/2)
I24680    Italy    605    604    R-Y88944(2/2)
I7453     Italy     30     28    (T-L454)T-L162(2/2)
I18202    Spain     58     58    E-M35(2/2)
I18189    Spain    191    190    E-M132(48/48)>E-M44(23/24)
I18199    Spain    664    661    (E-FTA5111)E-Y305618,E-Y305622(4/4)
I18201    Spain    884    881    E-BY7452(1/1)>E-Y305622(7/7)
I26932    Spain    770    767    (J-Z8074)J-PF5177(1/1)>J-PF5252(5/5)
I12517    Spain     36     36    R-M269(5/5)
I27602    Spain    591    589    (R-P310)R-L52(5/5)>(R-L151)R-PF6538,R-L151 (2/2)
I27620    Spain    768    765    R-Z2573(2/2)>(R-FT187568)(2/2)
I18193    Spain    525    523    (T-PF7457)T-Y37311(2/2)
I24206    Tunisia    799    793    E-M44(59/61)
I35336    Tunisia    424    423    (E-ZS5785)E-Y60598(1/1)>(E-FTA10753)(2/2)
I24194    Tunisia    758    755    (E-FTA58260)E-BY10662(1/1)>(E-PH4686)E-Y145624(3/12)
I35287    Tunisia    232    229    (E-L795)E-M84(9/9)
I24196    Tunisia    424    422    G-L166(3/3)>(G-FGC5712)G-Z6494(2/2)
I35344    Tunisia    204    200    G-L497(5/5)
I24208    Tunisia    902    899    G-PF3345(1/1)>(G-FTB86)G-FTA56155(3/3)
I31735    Tunisia    1120    1116    (I-PH4419)I-Y21971(8/8)
I24187    Tunisia     42     40    (J-Z1853)J-Z1853,J-Y519675(2/2)>(J-L862)J-Z2331 (2/2)
I35327    Tunisia    276    274    J-P58(4/4)
I35345    Tunisia    211    207    J-M92(2/2)
I35343    Tunisia    343    336    (J-FTB27635)J-BY142237(3/3)
I24047    Tunisia    606    604    (J-BY759)J-Y14434,J-Z28529(6/6)
R11753    Tunisia    887    882    (J-CTS3617)J-Y15058(2/2)
I35342    Tunisia    144    142    J-L283(3/3)
I24032    Tunisia    716    712    J-Z597(3/3)
I35285    Tunisia     79     78    R-M269(3/3)
I28504    Tunisia    627    623    R-M269(36/36)
R11746    Tunisia    506    503    (R-F3867)R-Y81399(1/1)>(R-BY64640)R-Y81399(5/5)
I24200    Tunisia     87     87    T-M70(3/3)
I24205    Tunisia    861    859    T-Y28684(1/1)>(T-PF7457)T-Y37311(3/6)
Scaled

Код: [Выделить]

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[kardes]

Прямое радиоуглеродное датирование ребенка Лапедо по гидроксипролину (Абриго ду Лагар Велью, Лейрия, Португалия)
Аннотация
Открытие в 1998 году почти нетронутого человеческого захоронения эпохи граветтиан в долине Лапедо (Лейрия, Португалия) принесло скальному убежищу Лагар-Велью всемирную известность. Окрашенный охрой скелет ребенка из Лапедо, подростка в возрасте около четырех или пяти лет, демонстрировал мозаику неандертальских и анатомически современных человеческих черт, которые, как утверждается, отражают смешение двух человеческих популяций. Здесь мы представляем прямые радиоуглеродные датировки по специфическим соединениям для скелета ребенка [от 27 780 до 28 550 калиброванных лет до настоящего времени (cal BP)] и пяти связанных с ним костей из захоронения и нижележащих контекстов. Мы переоцениваем хронологию и археологическую интерпретацию захоронения в свете этих новых дат и демонстрируем пригодность радиоуглеродного датирования гидроксипролином для плохо сохранившихся палеолитических образцов, которые в противном случае не поддаются обычным методам предварительной обработки радиоуглеродом.
Скелету ребенка-гибрида человека и неандертальца всего 28 000 лет
Общепринятая теория заключается в том, что люди и неандертальцы скрещивались между 40 000 и 50 000 лет назад, и неандертальцы вымерли вскоре после этого. Но новое исследование определило, что скелету ребенка с человеческими и неандертальскими чертами, найденному в центральной Португалии три десятилетия назад, примерно 28 000 лет, что значительно выходит за рамки этого периода.
Впервые передовое радиоуглеродное датирование предоставило точную оценку возраста « ребенка из Лапедо », одного из самых интригующих доисторических человеческих скелетов, когда-либо обнаруженных, — и возможные последствия этой оценки весьма значительны.
Были ли неандертальцы живы и все еще скрещивались со своими человеческими кузенами еще в 26 000 году до нашей эры? Ответ на этот вопрос пока неясен, но он не так уж и неправдоподобен, как может показаться, учитывая необычные черты этого ребенка.

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https://nplus1.ru/news/2025/03/14/genomes-from-eastern-maghreb
Древняя ДНК указала на обмен генами между охотниками-собирателями Северной Африки и Европы
Вероятно, они пересекали Средиземное море в районе Сицилии и Туниса
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-08699-4

[kardes]

Анализ митохондриального генома андроновской популяции позднего бронзового века в Центральном Тянь-Шане, Синьцзян
Абстракт
Андроновская культура, которая произошла от синташтинской культуры, сыграла значительную роль в миграции населения через евразийскую степь. Горы Тянь-Шаня, расположенные на восточной оконечности евразийской степи, стали основным районом распространения андроновской культуры в Синьцзяне в эпоху поздней бронзы (ПБВ). Чтобы исследовать генетическую структуру, генетическое разнообразие и возможные пути миграции андроновской популяции поздней бронзы, мы провели анализ митохондриальных геномов 12 человек, раскопанных на кладбище Шихуяо в Центральном Тянь-Шане в Синьцзяне. Результаты показали, что популяция Шихуяо демонстрировала высокое генетическое разнообразие и близкое генетическое родство с культурными популяциями Западной степи, в частности с культурной популяцией Синташтинской культуры. Между тем, присутствие южноазиатской линии M2c, а также восточноевразийских линий C1e и Z1, указывает на генетические связи между популяциями Бактрийско-Маргианского археологического комплекса (BMAC), популяциями Северной Евразии/коренными популяциями и популяциями андроновской культуры. Наши выводы расширяют понимание распространения андроновской культуры в Центральном Тянь-Шане и ее влияния на генетическую структуру местных популяций.

Динамика населения в железном веке в Синьцзяне, выведенная из древних геномов стоянки Жагунлукэ
Абстракт
Культура Жагунлукэ железного века в южном Синьцзяне характеризовалась культурными связями с окружающими регионами и сосуществованием сельского хозяйства и животноводства, что, как предполагалось, представляло древнее царство Циемо. Однако подробная история населения древнего царства Циемо и сопровождались ли культурные обмены миграцией населения остаются неясными. В этом исследовании мы сообщаем о древних геномах двух людей из могильника Жагунлукэ № 1. В сочетании с опубликованными древними геномными данными мы наблюдали картину смешения восток-запад у людей Жагунлукэ с различными пропорциями разнообразных предков, что соответствует разнообразным культурным элементам на участке Жагунлукэ. Более того, мы выявили генетический выброс с доминирующей родословной, связанной с фермерами, выращивающими просо в бассейне реки Хуанхэ или реки Западный Ляо, что указывает на присутствие иммигрантов из северного Китая в южном Синьцзяне. Наши результаты показывают, что популяционные взаимодействия в значительной степени сформировали генетический профиль популяции Жагунлукэ..

 «Кроме того, представители племени Жагунлук несли как гаплогруппы R1b1, так и R1b2 Y-хромосомы, которые были характерными отцовскими линиями скотоводов Западной степи EBA и MLBA соответственно» - образец C3642 из Сампулы (SPL), датированный 1866-1711* calBP, указан как R1b1a1b1a1 и .другой образец, сгруппированный как Xinj_HE5, C2032 из Сяньшуйцюаньгучэна (XSQG) (1880-1742 calBP), указан как R1b2

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Идентифицирован разбойник... https://nplus1.ru/news/2025/03/24/remains-of-schinderhannes
https://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S1872-4973(25)00056-0/fulltext

Наиболее консервативная оценка, основанная на вероятностном подходе, дала LR 6,07*1010 в пользу H0. Консервативный традиционный подход к генотипированию дал LR 5,9*1018 в пользу H0.

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Ошибочный результат из Оленьей пещеры (Китай). Контаминация. https://nplus1.ru/news/2025/03/28/ancient-man-from-red-deer-cave
https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0960982224013666