Южнославянские E-V13

[Farroukh]

Драги брате, Нино! Добродошли у нашој заједници! Сте могли да изградите породично генеалошко () стабло своје клана?

[Maxim0605]

У нас у Петербургу у универзитету "РГГУ им. Герцена" има jедан професор са презимем Васоjевич.

[ninodjukic]

Farroukh,

Yes, I have been able to put together a family tree going back to Vaso.

As I mentioned, the family tradition is incorrect about the first couple of centuries, which is understandable. Otherwise, this is what I have:

Vaso - Rajo - Djuro - Milicko - Djuka - Vukasin - Stanj - Vuk - Uros - Cukan ...

Cukan is my great-great-great-great-greatgrandfather. That means, I'm Vaso's 16th generation down the tree. At 35 years between generations, that means Vaso lived about 600 years ago (17 x 35). That puts him at about 1400 or so...

Well, I think it's reasonable to expect that Vaso lived at least 100 years before that, since Vassoevichs were already formed as a clan by 1444. And you probably need at least 30-50 men under arms in a clan to be noticed. I'm guessing that would have meant Vaso was born by 1300, likely earlier.

BTW, my closets genetic relative did turn out to be one Petar Bojovic (DNA Heritage), also of Vassoevich line. According to family tradition, Milicko, a great-grandson of Vaso, is our common ancestor (supposedly, Milicko's children were: Nerad, Golub, Djuka, Bojo & Stojan). At 35 years between generations, and 13 generations back (plus mine), family tradition puts as at 1520 A.D. for a common ancestor. I don't have his haplotype at the fingertips right now, but, if I remember it correctly, it placed me at about 1500 A.D. for TMRCA with him using McGee's calculator.

The next closest relative I found was Vladimir Odavic (FTDNA), who knows his earliest ancestors lived in the historic region of Herzegovina (Trebinje). Our TMRCA came out to be around 750 A.D.

I have Mr Bojovic on my messenger, and I'll invite him to the forum.

Mr Goran Pesic of the Byelopavlic clan wrote an article a few years ago in which he presented DNA heritage of the Balkans... However, he theorized E-V13 was somehow Slavic with roots north of the Black Sea, which does not have much scientific evidence to support it.

I know one Radoncic from Gusinje (Sancak region), part of the Kuchi clan, tested as E-V13 via FTDNA as well.

Regards,

Nino

[I2a1a]

However, he theorized E-V13 was somehow Slavic with roots north of the Black Sea, which does not have much scientific evidence to support it.

You must be confusing E-V13 with I2a2a, which is a Slavic marker per excellence, for it has roots in the vast region between Carpathian mountains and Polesie.

[Sergey Lutak]

Нино, хвала што сте се одазвали нашем позиву!
Добродошли на руском форуму Молекуларна Генеалогија!

Народни легенде кажу да брдски племена Васојевићи и Бјелопавлићи потомци заједничког претка. Видимо да су ове легенде имају историјску језгру.
Горан Пешић (Бјелопавлић): 13 24 13 11 17 18 11 12 11 13 11 30
Нино Ђукић (Васојевић) ....: 13 24 13 10 16 18 11 12 11 14 11 31
Ови хаплотипа деле три мутације.
Можемо претпоставити да је њихов заједнички предак је живео на крају 1. миленијума пре нове ере. За прецизнију анализу потребно је имати дуге хаплотипа, и сматрају их филогенетски дрво.
Нино, који је представник брда племена, осим вас, Бојовића и Пешића, Y-ДНК тестиран и показао се E1b1b1a1b-V13?

[Sergey Lutak]

...
The next closest relative I found was Vladimir Odavic (FTDNA), who knows his earliest ancestors lived in the historic region of Herzegovina (Trebinje). Our TMRCA came out to be around 750 A.D.
...

Нисам могао да нађем његовој хаплотип. Колико маркери он има?
Шта националност, ако атрибуте својих предака Владимир Одавич? Срби или неко други?

[Sergey Lutak]

Нино, ви сте у контакту са Zdjelar (FTDNA kit 115974) из Хрватске? Он је твој рођак најближи у Haplozone::The E-M35 Phylogeny Project.
Да ли имате укупно 8 мутација у 67 маркера.
Ваш заједнички предак живео отприлике у 12-13 веку!

[Sergey Lutak]

...
I know one Radoncic from Gusinje (Sancak region), part of the Kuchi clan, tested as E-V13 via FTDNA as well.
...

Fadilj Radončić/Kuči clan (Ysearch ID: YNGYJ): 13 24 13 10 16 17 11 13 12 13 11 31
Вероватно, Радончићи припадају католичкој групе Кучи племена - Затријебач.

[ninodjukic]

I2a2a:

Mr Pesic actually theorized about E-V13 coming from the north of the Black Sea. I'm well aware of I2a2a, but that's not what he said in his article: http://www.scribd.com/doc/52692881/Goran-Pesic-Iz-mog-ugla.

Sergey:

My apologies. I meant, yes, I'm in touch with Zoran Zdjelar, but through someone else. I'm still trying to figure out his ancestral location.

There is another guy on FTDNA forum, Danijel Lisicic (Lisičić), from Northern Montenegro. However, I don't think he shared his ancestral origins. Based on some information I have, he may be from Banjani tribe (Western Montenegro, Old Herzegovina), the region that is much more haplogroup I.

It does look like we can almost draw a line between I2a and E1b1b going from the Bay of Kotor (Boka Kotorska) to Novi Pazar, where I2a dominates in the west, and E1b1b dominates in the east.

Nino

[Farroukh]

It  is necessary to find all Southern Slavic E-V13 haplotypes. Then we can find relations between Southern Slavian clans and Rusins

[I2a1a]

Mr. jerkovic wrote here

Да, Слободан Милошевич из старих Васоевича, также как и актриса Мила Јовович и генерал сербскии Петар Бојович. Они все должни бит Е1б1.

До сих пор ја знају за два члена старих Васоевича которои тестировали се как Е1б. Ето фамилии Джукич и Бојович. Ихнев гаплотипи очен блискии. По традиции ихнев општи предок жил 300 лет назад. Генетика потвердила семеинују традиции.

Ещо два известна представитела стариих Васоевича:

Вук Караджич и Радован Караджич.

Ну братство Шекулар которое тоже част Васоевича не происходит од стариих Васоевича и они И2а2.
Старие Васоевичи всо осталние Васоевичи котории нет старии називајут Серблиаци, што в принципе значит Серби. И ети Серблјаци как Шекулари И2а2.

[I2a1a]

There are some speculations about Albanian origin of Vasojevici clan

Albanian Legend maintains that each of Keq Preka's sons is the father and namesake of his own tribe:[citation needed] Lazar Keqi (Hoti), Ban Keqi (Triesh), Kras Keqi (Krasniqi), Piper Keqi (the Piperi[citation needed] clan), and Vaso Keqi (the Vasojevići clan). Sometime after the construction of the church at Gruda (1528), Lazar Keqi and his son, Gheg Lazari, moved into the area known by the natives as Hoti (a name that has existed since at least the 1330s) and settled there permanently.

The nearby Triesh tribe is considered by locals as the "younger brother" of Hoti, as the tribes share Keq Preka as a common ancestor

Interesting facts about Montenegrin clans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasojevi%C4%87i
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjelopavli%C4%87i_(clan)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piperi_clan

[Farroukh]

Вук Караджич и Радован Караджич

Радован Караджич - вероятный E1b1b1???

[I2a1a]

Вук Караджич и Радован Караджич

Радован Караджич - вероятный E1b1b1

Также как и Слобо.
Везет Вам, E1b1b1, на харизматичных деятелей.
Подобное умозаключение можно сделать из сообщения Ерковича.

[Farroukh]

Везет Вам, E1b1b1, на харизматичных деятелей.

Точнее, на мудаков с сомнительной кровавой репутацией.
Гитлер (без комментариев), Линдон Джонсон (инициатор войны во Вьетнаме и доктрины Джонсона), Джон Кэлхун (главный идеолог рабовладельческого строя в США) - упоминания о них надо выпилить к чёртовой матери из нашего списка