Дерево гаплогруппы O

[mouglley]

По 39-ти 67-ми маркерным гаплотипам построено дерево.
Без предковых гаплотипов, представленных уважаемым wertner его не удавалось укоренить.



O1 - шестиугольники
O2- восьмиугольники
O3 - эллипсы

[Valery]

красиво

[Grigoriev]

Виктор, а можно чуть больше добавить информации (описательного характера) в сообщение?
Например, какой программой строилось, что означает дата в точках... Я к тому, что дам ссылку на Древо нескольким своим зарубежным знакомым... Чтобы не повторяться потом с одной и той же информацией.
Спасибо!

[Valery]

Повешу на стенку Гостям скажу что это моя (я N) близкая азиатская родня

[mouglley]

Строилось дерево, как, наверное, уже заметили, в Мурке.

Даты в точках при таком мизерном количестве гаплотипов, практически, ничего не значат.

В лучшем случае, согласно поправке Адамова на возвратные мутации, возраст гаплогруппы O составляет 16-69 ky (в зввисимости от числа маркеров, по которым производится подсчёт возраста).
Ничего нового.

На dna-forums дерево выложу я сам, естественно со ссылкой на автора программы и представившего предковые гаплотипы и предсказавшего гаплогруппы Wertner.

В перспективе попытаюсь построить дерево по всем 67-ми маркерным гаплотипам NO.

[Valikhan]

По 39-ти 67-ми маркерным гаплотипам построено дерево.
Без предковых гаплотипов, представленных уважаемым wertner его не удавалось укоренить.



O1 - шестиугольники
O2- восьмиугольники
O3 - эллипсы

Дерева нет

[mouglley]

Дерева нет

На радикале шалят, сволочи.
Перазалил.

[Clavis]

дерево замечательное. На случай повторных шалостей на Радикале я сохранил его у себя.

[mouglley]

Да, у меня ести их.
Сегодня, носом ткнули, что последнее дерево R1a1 на sendspace удалили.
Перезалил и обновил в первом посте.

[sahaliyan]

What's your opinion,dear mouglley?I do think hapgroups like O and N is actually older than we can thought,one thing is for sure,str is not too useful in this case,as there are many reverse mutations exist
http://dna-forums.org/index.php?/topic/8246-phylogenic-tree-of-haplogroup-o/page__pid__234268#entry234268
polyhedron
I'm sorry but STR informations have too low power in resolving the relationship of ancient lineages. In modern family adjustment it shows good results though. I bet, if you put more 67-STRs from other haplogroups than O in this tree, you'll see many inconsisitencies amongst and intra different haplogroups. I don't believe the STR-based "phylogenetic" analysis at all. I'll stick on SNPs.

[mouglley]

It's very difficult to say something certain about the age of a haplogroup by 39 haplotypes.

But a couple of years ago Nimissin wrote an article (in Russian) when he stated the term of  a "quotient of back mutations of STRs" (if I remember its name correctly).

It means that if the age of a common ancestor of a haplogroup is bigger this quotient is more too (something near an exponence).
In case if we use the phylogeny of a HG is works if we have too little of haplotypes only.

For example: when we had about 80 67-markers haplotypes of Hg N1c1, the age of this Hg on the graphs was about 3500 years.
By calculations with this quotient the age was about 7500 years.

Now we have 695 67-markers haplotypes of HG N1c1, the age of this Hg on the graphs was about 6500 years.
I think when we have 1000 haplotypes, the age became close to the real age.

So the age of Hg O on this picture 8850 years by the quotient of back mutations of STRs becomes 23000-27000 years.
I don’t think this age a foolishness at all.

[sahaliyan]

It's very difficult to say something certain about the age of a haplogroup by 39 haplotypes.

But a couple of years ago Nimissin wrote an article (in Russian) when he stated the term of  a "quotient of back mutations of STRs" (if I remember its name correctly).

It means that if the age of a common ancestor of a haplogroup is bigger this quotient is more too (something near an exponence).
In case if we use the phylogeny of a HG is works if we have too little of haplotypes only.

For example: when we had about 80 67-markers haplotypes of Hg N1c1, the age of this Hg on the graphs was about 3500 years.
By calculations with this quotient the age was about 7500 years.

Now we have 695 67-markers haplotypes of HG N1c1, the age of this Hg on the graphs was about 6500 years.
I think when we have 1000 haplotypes, the age became close to the real age.

So the age of Hg O on this picture 8850 years by the quotient of back mutations of STRs becomes 23000-27000 years.
I don’t think this age a foolishness at all.

I have read the Adamov paper on this issue,I'm not a clever person,so I can't understand his paper entirely,but as I understand,yes,in Neolithic time,the age can be smaller than we thought,however,before Neolithic time,things are different,as recpectful adamov said the hunter gathers are different with peasants and nomads
For example,Shi et al TMRCA the O3 common age as 30000 years old,I think his TMRCA is more real,but in M134 and M117 case,his TMRCA maybe biased

[sahaliyan]

It's very difficult to say something certain about the age of a haplogroup by 39 haplotypes.

But a couple of years ago Nimissin wrote an article (in Russian) when he stated the term of  a "quotient of back mutations of STRs" (if I remember its name correctly).

It means that if the age of a common ancestor of a haplogroup is bigger this quotient is more too (something near an exponence).
In case if we use the phylogeny of a HG is works if we have too little of haplotypes only.

For example: when we had about 80 67-markers haplotypes of Hg N1c1, the age of this Hg on the graphs was about 3500 years.
By calculations with this quotient the age was about 7500 years.

Now we have 695 67-markers haplotypes of HG N1c1, the age of this Hg on the graphs was about 6500 years.
I think when we have 1000 haplotypes, the age became close to the real age.

So the age of Hg O on this picture 8850 years by the quotient of back mutations of STRs becomes 23000-27000 years.
I don’t think this age a foolishness at all.

Also I think the 67-str N1c1 of population such as Mongols,Manchus,Hans and Koreans are needed,as far as I know,there aren't too many 67 str N1c1 of them
If we  TMRCA   the haplogroup O,I think we should have  the population like polynesian,Madagascar 67 str samples

[sahaliyan]

Accord to 1000 genome project and some other data,there are some SNPs united O1 and O2,but not O3,I think the current tree of O will be changed soon,O1 and O2 become new O1,O3 become noe O2
Best regars

[Шад]

Про дерево снипов гаплогруппы O
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_465ddf790102vj8o.html