АвторТема: Ранняя история прото-армян  (Прочитано 7189 раз)

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Оффлайн Allan

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #15 : 16 Сентябрь 2024, 20:53:27 »
И было бы неплохо увидеть факты языкового субстрата из указанных языков в восточногрузинских идиомах.
В последней работе по дДнк Грузии видно что предки современных и средневековых Грузин  (Анатолия+Кавказ) полностью похожи на "Южный" кластер. Поэтому и не должно быть в Грузинском никаких вкраплений от "местных" (Местные=Кавказский+Степной) эпохи поздней Бронзы и раннего железа, ведь их предки с местными не смешивались , Грузины почти полностью из Анатолии(Северо-Восточной Анатолии) по набору аутосом.

Интересными так же в этом случае могут быть Среднея Бронза и эпоха Железа(но не раннея) которые микс Халколита Ирана и Степи. Кто это? Сначала Иранцы и потом северные Иранцы?

https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,15463.msg597057.html#msg597057
« Последнее редактирование: 16 Сентябрь 2024, 21:10:23 от Allan »

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #16 : 16 Сентябрь 2024, 22:13:16 »
И было бы неплохо увидеть факты языкового субстрата из указанных языков в восточногрузинских идиомах.
В последней работе по дДнк Грузии видно что предки современных и средневековых Грузин  (Анатолия+Кавказ) полностью похожи на "Южный" кластер. Поэтому и не должно быть в Грузинском никаких вкраплений от "местных" (Местные=Кавказский+Степной) эпохи поздней Бронзы и раннего железа, ведь их предки с местными не смешивались , Грузины почти полностью из Анатолии(Северо-Восточной Анатолии) по набору аутосом.
Интересными так же в этом случае могут быть Среднея Бронза и эпоха Железа(но не раннея) которые микс Халколита Ирана и Степи. Кто это? Сначала Иранцы и потом северные Иранцы?
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,15463.msg597057.html#msg597057
вот заливает)
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,15463.msg596726.html#msg596726
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,15463.msg596742.html#msg596742
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,15463.msg597025.html#msg597025
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,15463.msg597030.html#msg597030
https://forum.molgen.org/index.php/topic,15463.msg597069.html#msg597069
Давид, может хватит уже валять дурака? Уже пять раз написал про этот "южный класстер". В статье пишут про "греков" пришедших в Грузию, а у Давида опять всё в точности наоборот: грузины пришли из Греции?

Оффлайн Allan

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #17 : 17 Сентябрь 2024, 08:28:25 »
Бердзени(Элинизированое Картлийское племя позже экзоним Греков) и река Ариан откуда пришли Грузины/Ариан-Картлийцы это в одном и том же регионе это юг и к югу от Аджарии.

Южный кластер вместе с современными  Грузинами на севере Анатолийского кластера так какие Греки?

Понтийцы-Греки не отличаются от Картвел генетически.
В эпоху Византии , Понтийцы заселяли некоторые места Греции, это задокументированно,  особенно остров Крит, например.
И после войны Понтийцы прибыли в Грецию век тому назад, сейчас молодёжь например Салоников это в основном Понтийцы Цыгане и Албанцы
« Последнее редактирование: 17 Сентябрь 2024, 08:53:06 от Allan »

Оффлайн Gorr

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #18 : 17 Сентябрь 2024, 13:08:40 »
флуд...

Кто из них кто ?

TRB011  Taribana, Kakheti W3b    E           Early Bronze Age                                 J1a2b~
TRB006  Taribana, Kakheti H13a1a1   E   Early Bronze Age                                 J1a2b~
TRB010 Taribana, Kakheti H13a1a2   E   Early Bronze Age                                 J1a2b1b2~


ATK005 Atskuri T2a3    M                             Middle Bronze Age                         G2a2b2a
ATK003  Atskuri T2h    M                          Middle Bronze Age                         G2a2b2a1a1a1b2
ATK004  Atskuri U2d    M                           Middle Bronze Age                         G2a2b2a1a1a1b
ATK006  Atskuri U2d    M                           Middle Bronze Age                         G2a2b2a
ATK001 Atskuri H13a2b2    M                   Middle Bronze Age                            G2a2b2a

AVR001 Alaverdi, Telavi, Kakheti H2    E     Middle Bronze Age                                 R1b1a1b
AVR002  Alaverdi, Telavi, Kakheti U4b3    E   Middle Bronze Age                                 J1a2b1b2~ 
TSG001  Tsaghvli, Khashuri W3a1    M   Middle Bronze Age                                I2a2b~
TSG002 Tsaghvli, Khashuri U2e1b    E   Middle Bronze Age                                  I2a2b~
MRA001 Murakebi, Kakheti T2h    E           Late Bronze Age                                 T1a1a
TSV001 Tserovani T2    E                           Late Bronze Age                                 I2a2b
TSV002  Tserovani H2b    E                           Late Bronze Age                                 I2a2
TSV005 Tserovani K1a17   E                   Late Bronze Age                                 I2a2b
TSV007 Tserovani K1b1    E                   Late Bronze Age                                 J2a1
TSV008  Tserovani T1a1+@152    E           Late Bronze Age                             G2a1a1a
TSV009  Tserovani U8b1a1    E                   Late Bronze Age                                I2a2b~
TSV014 Tserovani U1a    E                           Late Bronze Age                               R1b1a1b1b1[L584]
TSV015  Tserovani U3b    E                           Late Bronze Age                               I2a2b
DDN005 Didnauri, Kakheti H29    E           Late Bronze Age                                R1b1a1b
TRL002  Treli U3b                                  Late Bronze Age                               I2a2b1
TRL005  Treli U5b2a1a+16311              Late Bronze Age                               I2a2b~
SAP004 Sapar-Kharaba, Tsalka H87    M   Late Bronze Age                                R1b1a1b
SAP011 Sapar-Kharaba, Tsalka H15b    М   Late Bronze Age                                I2a2b1
DDN006  Didnauri, Kakheti I5c    E           Late Bronze-Early Iron Age                   R1b1a1b1b1[l584]
DDN002 Didnauri, Kakheti U3b    E           Late Bronze-Early Iron Age                R1b1a1b
BZT001  Bazaleti, Dusheti T1a5    E           Early Iron Age                                         J2a1a
BZT002 Bazaleti, Dusheti H    E                   Early Iron Age                                  J2a1a1a2b2a
KTR001  Kistauri U5a1b1    E                   Early Iron Age                                       I2a2b~
AHI001 Arboshiki J1b3b    E                           Early Iron Age                                     I2a2b
« Последнее редактирование: 17 Сентябрь 2024, 22:02:14 от Gorr »

Оффлайн Kambic

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #19 : 17 Сентябрь 2024, 16:08:05 »
флуд...
Кто из них кто ?
 
?
Давид же тупит топит про южный класстер, где  наш DZN011   Early Middle Ages   Dzinvali   X2d   R1b1a1b1b3a1a1[CTS9219]?
Если и в LBA западной Грузиии также найдут только I2 +R1b, то все они не древние греки, а иберокавказцы,баскокартвелы,алуанк вообщем "немцы")

Оффлайн Gorr

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #20 : 17 Сентябрь 2024, 17:35:18 »
флуд...
Кто из них кто ?
 
?
....

флудить не надо.
Есть по сути что сказать?

Оффлайн Gorr

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« Последнее редактирование: 17 Сентябрь 2024, 21:24:40 от Gorr »

Оффлайн Kambic

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #22 : 18 Сентябрь 2024, 13:01:02 »
флуд...
Кто из них кто ?
 
где  наш DZN011   Early Middle Ages   Dzinvali   X2d   R1b1a1b1b3a1a1[CTS9219]?....
флудить не надо.
Есть по сути что сказать?
Ещё полвека назад в этом могильнике Чхеидзе и Николаешвили нашли Диониса, но промолчали. Если бы какой то интурист случайно не увидел, то никто бы и не узнал.


R1b1a1b=R-M269  https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.13/tree/R-M269/
R1b1a1b1b1[L584]  https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L584*/
I2a2b = Y16419.  https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y16419/
I2a2b1 -Y273482 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y273482/
Древние северокавказские мигранты на юг, некоторые образцы недотипированы .

Оффлайн Gorr

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #23 : 18 Сентябрь 2024, 14:08:06 »
R1b1a1b=R-M269  https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.13/tree/R-M269/
R1b1a1b1b1[L584]  https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L584*/
I2a2b = Y16419.  https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y16419/
I2a2b1 -Y273482 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y273482/
Древние северокавказские мигранты на юг, некоторые образцы недотипированы .

И где вы по этим веткам увидели "северокавказцвев"?

Оффлайн Gorr

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #24 : 18 Сентябрь 2024, 14:11:22 »
флуд...
Кто из них кто ?
 
где  наш DZN011   Early Middle Ages   Dzinvali   X2d   R1b1a1b1b3a1a1[CTS9219]?....
флудить не надо.
Есть по сути что сказать?
Ещё полвека назад в этом могильнике Чхеидзе и Николаешвили нашли Диониса, но промолчали. Если бы какой то интурист случайно не увидел, то никто бы и не узнал.


это(Early Middle Ages Дионис) должно что то означать  или опять флудите ?

Оффлайн Gorr

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #25 : 18 Сентябрь 2024, 14:44:53 »
Если не устраивют ответы, то можете  и не спрашивать, вы вольны для своих интерпритаций.

флуд не ответ.

Оффлайн Kambic

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #26 : 18 Сентябрь 2024, 17:33:09 »
хах) прошу верить, что у меня нет желания обидеть вас©
целенаправленно искали чеченцев и не нашли.)))
отсюдо и звездочки на уровне Z1828 и даже  Z2215

все ниже  опять для поиска чеченцев и опять мимо.
 
Кто эти умные ученые?
Лучше бы сначало на TMRCA смотрели...

Оффлайн Andvari

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #27 : 22 Сентябрь 2024, 14:46:00 »
9NP:9NP003,0.119514,0.091398,0.042615,0.094316,-0.041854,0.056336,0.0094,-0.024922,-0.0407,-0.065969,0.008119,0.009442,-0.008771,-0.001239,0.016558,0.009149,-0.017471,-0.000127,-0.030922,0.01088,-0.005241,0.005193,0.025759,0.01458,0.00467
Armenia_EBA_KuraAraxes_possible:XXX001,0.097888,0.128972,-0.073539,-0.042636,-0.048932,-0.007809,0.012926,-0.001154,-0.062175,-0.021139,0.004384,0.009292,-0.015907,0.001651,0.0076,-0.000796,0.008736,-0.001394,0.000628,-0.003001,0.009358,-0.00272,0.004683,0.000964,0.004431
Armenia_LBA_EIA_possible:LER001,0.101303,0.127957,-0.043369,-0.013889,-0.037853,0.00251,0.005405,-0.005769,-0.049699,-0.018588,0.003897,0.003597,-0.012636,-0.002615,0.00855,0.000133,0.00013,-0.004814,-0.00088,-0.001251,0.001373,0.001484,0.006779,-0.005904,0.00491
Armenia_LBA_EIA_possible:LER002,0.099026,0.129988,-0.041106,-0.014858,-0.031698,0.006136,0.003055,-0.010615,-0.046631,-0.031345,-0.005034,0.000749,-0.01115,0.001101,0.01045,-0.002917,0.001695,0.00114,0.00088,0.007754,0.000624,-0.000866,0.005053,0.007712,-0.001317
Armenia_LBA_EIA_possible:LER003,0.102441,0.121864,-0.048271,-0.010982,-0.03139,0.002231,0.006345,0.003,-0.048268,-0.018041,-0.008119,0.007194,-0.01219,-0.000826,0.0095,0.009944,0.013038,0.00152,0.002514,0.001626,0.002496,-0.001113,0.006655,-0.003133,0.003473
Armenia_LBA_EIA_possible:LER004,0.100164,0.118817,-0.039598,-0.012274,-0.038469,-0.00251,0.000705,-0.010615,-0.050517,-0.03262,0.000162,0.015436,-0.007582,-0.006331,0.006107,-0.01485,-0.001434,-0.002154,-0.007793,-0.003877,0.006613,0.007048,-0.011955,0.004458,0.012574
Armenia_LBA_EIA_possible:LER005,0.100164,0.128972,-0.039221,-0.018088,-0.033545,0.003904,0.000705,-0.000462,-0.051131,-0.016948,0.002761,0.005095,-0.01219,0.009909,0.010179,-0.006099,-0.012517,0.009628,-0.004777,-0.00025,0.003494,0.011005,0.006655,-0.002048,-0.001437
Azerbaijan_BA_possible:BOE001,0.073985,0.105615,-0.107479,-0.021641,-0.075399,0.013666,0.013396,-0.001615,-0.069129,-0.028429,0.004547,-0.000899,-0.003568,-0.004129,0.015065,0.010077,-0.020731,-0.000127,0.002514,-0.025762,0.009608,-0.012118,-0.003944,-0.024823,0.013053
Azerbaijan_BA_possible:BOE003,0.062603,0.096475,-0.103708,-0.010659,-0.07663,0.017849,-0.001175,-0.002538,-0.065243,-0.030251,0.001299,0.006444,-0.013677,-0.00055,0.014794,0.025457,-0.009648,0.00038,0.012821,-0.023761,0.00574,-0.011747,0.000246,-0.014821,0.009939
BOK:BOK011,0.104717,0.031481,0.046009,0.145997,-0.06832,0.05271,-0.005875,-0.019153,-0.056653,-0.076904,0.024033,0.00015,0.006541,-0.042938,0.02443,0.01127,-0.019688,0.000507,-0.005279,0.010005,-0.020838,-0.00643,0.009367,0.01458,-0.005987
BOK:BOK015,0.102441,0.076165,0.035072,0.100453,-0.011387,0.03765,0.013631,-0.014307,-0.049904,-0.064876,-0.009419,-0.004946,-0.000743,-0.015689,0.035287,0.015778,-0.004172,0.009628,-0.003897,0.009004,-0.001373,0.002102,0.00456,0.021931,-0.011137
BOK:BOK016,0.093335,0.084289,0.026398,0.082042,-0.017849,0.036814,0.00752,0.009692,-0.058903,-0.066516,-0.00341,0.013788,-0.011001,-0.031928,0.028908,0.005038,-0.001434,-0.004941,-0.009427,0.008629,0.001622,0.012365,0.012202,0.009881,-0.005269
BOK:BOK017,0.117238,0.08632,0.041483,0.106591,-0.028621,0.045459,0.00141,-0.003461,-0.05379,-0.066881,-0.001137,0.001049,-0.000297,-0.021332,0.03773,0.016839,-0.005215,0.0019,-0.002011,0.004627,-0.003868,-0.000866,0.015159,0.017111,-0.00934
ERG:ERG001,0.1161,0.090382,0.023004,0.092055,-0.03416,0.026495,0.002585,0.007154,-0.061357,-0.059956,-0.002761,-3e-04,0.001189,-0.017065,0.034744,0.01074,-0.009127,-0.002787,0.000754,0.012381,-0.003119,0.005812,0.008874,0.005422,-0.006347
ERG:ERG005,0.113823,0.08632,0.049403,0.104006,-0.028005,0.03765,0.00329,-0.008538,-0.05379,-0.071983,0.001786,0.002997,-0.013082,-0.018579,0.037459,0.014983,-0.009127,0.003167,-0.009679,0.007629,0.001123,0.011252,0.005669,0.019039,0.002395
ERG:ERG011,0.102441,0.085304,0.038843,0.094962,-0.028928,0.033746,-0.006815,0.013615,-0.061971,-0.067792,-0.007307,0.002698,0.005054,-0.018029,0.042752,0.009812,-0.028033,-0.015709,-0.003268,0.00963,0.008984,0.005317,0.007518,0.018436,-0.011496
ESY:ESY006,0.114961,0.057885,0.048271,0.111436,-0.036314,0.047411,-0.013866,-0.017768,-0.050108,-0.075992,0.006983,0.000599,0.007284,-0.030277,0.027144,0.012861,-0.00352,-0.006208,-0.004022,0.005127,-0.004742,0.007666,0.006902,0.026148,-0.003952
ESY:ESY007,0.10927,0.055854,0.048271,0.113697,-0.036007,0.040439,-0.023031,-0.006231,-0.064834,-0.063236,0.011042,0.015137,-0.001933,-0.043764,0.02253,0.001591,-0.008345,-0.017736,0.004148,0.001751,-0.009358,0.002473,0.020952,0.017111,-0.004071
ESY:ESY009,0.110408,0.066009,0.044123,0.117896,-0.042469,0.039045,-0.01081,-0.013384,-0.050926,-0.068885,0.005034,-0.004046,0.011744,-0.030965,0.030944,0.00769,-0.009388,-0.007981,0.001885,0.011756,-0.011605,0.004699,0.006162,0.020726,-0.004431
Georgia_Aruchlo_LN:ARO008,0.103579,0.152329,-0.064865,-0.079781,-0.017542,-0.020638,-0.00094,-0.000923,-0.014521,0.019317,-0.002273,0.001199,0.000595,0.001239,-0.016829,0.012729,0.032857,0.004687,0.002011,0.005127,0.012603,0.01014,-0.005793,-0.002771,0.006227
Georgia_Aruchlo_LN:ARO011,0.122929,0.142174,-0.056191,-0.08398,-0.026159,-0.031794,0.00846,0.001154,-0.019021,0.009841,0.007957,-0.001798,-0.017839,-0.001651,-0.024158,0.009016,0.031814,-0.001394,0.014581,-0.001126,-0.004492,-0.006925,-0.004314,-0.014339,-0.013891
Georgia_N:AO2001,0.103579,0.14319,-0.058454,-0.058463,-0.040007,-0.017012,0.00188,-0.006,-0.024543,0.004556,0.001299,0.000749,-0.009812,-0.005092,-0.015201,0.00358,0.009257,-0.000507,0.005154,-0.013882,-0.001373,0.007296,-0.01023,-0.01699,0.002395
ILL:ILL001,0.104717,0.042652,0.039221,0.149873,-0.06432,0.049921,0.001645,-0.018461,-0.039473,-0.072348,0.002923,-0.000899,0.004162,-0.039085,0.024701,0.006895,-0.022948,-0.005954,0.002011,-0.006628,-0.024332,-0.007543,0.002218,0.01205,-0.006227
MK5:MK5003,0.111547,0.093429,0.030547,0.099484,-0.021542,0.032351,0.017861,0.000231,-0.056449,-0.065241,-0.000812,0.005995,-0.006244,-0.02546,0.025244,0.022673,0.004694,0.005701,-0.013073,0.00963,-0.003494,0.010387,0.020829,0.020123,-0.020357
MK5:MK5014,0.122929,0.119832,0.039975,0.098515,-0.029544,0.044344,-0.013396,0.007615,-0.056653,-0.070161,0.019974,0.006894,-0.012339,-0.018029,0.033251,0.001856,0.002608,-0.004561,0.006411,0.004377,-0.016221,0.002102,0.010353,0.031571,-0.007424
PUT001:PUT001,0.10927,0.105615,-0.016216,0.033269,-0.044624,0.019243,0.00658,-0.005769,-0.066879,-0.048475,0.000974,0.004496,-0.009514,-0.017891,0.023344,0.013789,-0.005476,-0.002407,0.002765,0.007253,-0.004617,0.005441,0.005176,-0.004097,0
Russia_Caucasus_EBA_Yamnaya:KNK001,0.119514,0.083273,0.065996,0.125002,-0.025851,0.04267,0,0.004154,-0.044382,-0.061778,0.009743,-0.006145,0.007433,-0.025735,0.033794,0.018563,0.00665,-0.008361,0.006034,0.020385,-0.003244,0.003833,0.001602,0.003494,-0.004191
Russia_Caucasus_EBA_Yamnaya:KNK002,0.121791,0.080227,0.033564,0.128232,-0.027697,0.048527,0.005405,-0.006231,-0.065652,-0.06925,-0.002273,0.006145,0.009068,-0.025323,0.039902,0.014585,0.001956,0.000507,-0.002263,0.001376,-0.008735,-0.000124,0.011955,0.020364,0.007185
Russia_Caucasus_EBA_Yamnaya:KNK005,0.124067,0.084289,0.038466,0.111436,-0.0397,0.039045,0.00282,-0.008538,-0.062993,-0.072712,0.001624,0.003147,-0.005946,-0.020643,0.031759,0.019888,0.004824,0.002154,-0.001885,0.004502,-0.014849,0.000989,0.006409,0.022292,-0.008502
Russia_Caucasus_EBA_Yamnaya:KNK007,0.119514,0.08632,0.033564,0.112082,-0.046778,0.046575,0.001645,-0.002308,-0.061562,-0.068703,0.003735,0.011989,-0.009366,-0.022157,0.02918,0.017104,0.003651,-0.00228,-0.005656,0.003001,-0.00836,0.006059,0.011955,0.019159,-0.014011
Russia_Caucasus_EBA_Yamnaya:VGD001,0.10927,0.09546,0.043746,0.106914,-0.016926,0.040439,-0.007755,0.003461,-0.055835,-0.073623,-0.000325,0.001798,0.007284,-0.017203,0.034202,0.012331,0.015646,-0.00038,0.010307,0.012256,-0.00574,0.001855,0.005546,0.00482,-0.001796
Russia_Caucasus_Ginchi_KuraAraxes:GIN002,0.101303,0.118817,-0.053174,-0.007106,-0.057549,0.01004,0.010575,-0.001154,-0.082014,-0.044101,0.007957,0.009292,-0.020664,-0.01445,0.010722,0.002519,0.006128,-0.00114,-0.00993,0.005127,0.001872,-0.00779,0.005793,-0.00964,-0.000359
Russia_Caucasus_Ginchi_KuraAraxes:GIN003,0.112685,0.119832,-0.051666,0.005814,-0.056626,0.021475,0.009635,-0.009461,-0.050722,-0.038452,-0.001137,0.001649,-0.010852,0.00234,0.013843,-0.008884,0.013951,-0.005954,-0.006285,0.013131,0.005116,0.001607,-0.006532,-0.001687,0.006347
Russia_Caucasus_Ginchi_KuraAraxes:GIN006,0.108132,0.122879,-0.080327,-0.023256,-0.060011,-0.00753,0.01081,-0.013384,-0.085491,-0.036994,-0.002111,0.012139,-0.022596,-0.001101,0.010179,-0.010607,0.001565,-0.006841,-0.005028,-0.005127,-0.00025,-0.004946,0.007395,-0.009278,-0.003113
Russia_Caucasus_Ginchi_KuraAraxes:GTK001,0.100164,0.119832,-0.072784,-0.014858,-0.06832,0.008925,0.012691,-0.002538,-0.074651,-0.032256,0.003248,0.014087,-0.017542,-0.01156,0.0095,0.010475,0.019036,-0.002534,-0.001383,0.008004,0.010981,-0.005564,0.002958,-0.001928,0.006586
Russia_Caucasus_LateMaikop:ESY005,0.103579,0.126941,-0.059208,-0.045543,-0.042162,-0.001394,0.00705,-0.007384,-0.056244,-0.023326,0.001461,0.006145,-0.017691,-0.001927,0.002986,-0.004906,0.017341,-0.003547,-0.010433,0.019134,0.005366,-0.004946,-0.005423,0.002892,-0.004071
Russia_Caucasus_LateMaikop:KMM008,0.101303,0.129988,-0.063733,-0.039406,-0.042162,-0.006972,0.00799,-0.000692,-0.051949,-0.023691,-0.006983,0.007044,-0.017096,0.004542,0.006107,-0.004641,0.002347,-0.005954,-0.003017,-0.000125,0.001872,-0.007914,-0.006162,-0.004699,0.002395
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop:ESY001,0.086506,0.122879,-0.056945,-0.024548,-0.040315,-0.009203,0.00564,-0.011076,-0.045609,-0.014943,0.018512,0.000899,-0.001635,0.00234,0.007329,0.007292,0.008866,-0.006208,0.000754,-0.006378,0.006863,-0.001113,0.007641,-0.004579,-0.002036
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop:ESY002,0.083091,0.117801,-0.063733,-0.024548,-0.040931,-0.009761,0.005405,-0.001385,-0.041314,-0.020228,0.011042,0.005845,-0.002379,-0.003853,0.004614,0.006099,0.006519,-0.00228,0.000377,-0.006378,0.001497,0.012736,-0.00456,-0.00482,0.002155
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop:ESY003,0.094473,0.128972,-0.069767,-0.048127,-0.033545,-0.008367,0.00188,-0.005077,-0.041723,-0.013303,0.006983,0.004646,-0.011893,0.009771,0.001357,-0.001989,0.010561,-0.002027,-0.005028,0.007629,0.005615,0.004081,-0.008134,-0.008194,-0.006347
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop:ESY004,0.092197,0.125926,-0.063356,-0.052003,-0.031083,-0.006693,0.009165,-0.007846,-0.043973,-0.008383,0.001786,0.003747,-0.016055,0.006331,0.0038,-0.01538,0.009388,0.000253,-0.003897,0.000875,0.003993,0.002473,-0.017871,-0.006989,-0.01449
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop:VIN001,0.100164,0.139128,-0.049026,-0.033269,-0.045855,-0.003347,0.005875,-0.006,-0.055221,-0.01221,0.003897,-3e-04,-0.019177,0.004404,-0.003122,-0.007425,0.034291,-0.014316,-0.012821,0.011005,0.007986,-0.003957,0.004314,0.008917,-0.003473
Russia_Caucasus_Maikop:VS5001,0.100164,0.125926,-0.054305,-0.031008,-0.036622,-0.003904,0.00282,-0.002769,-0.048268,-0.014397,-0.00341,0.007343,-0.012042,-0.004542,0.001221,-0.000265,0.027772,-0.006968,-0.012067,0.013006,0.012977,0.005193,0.004683,-0.00494,-0.00491
Russia_Kurganniy_BA:KUG006,0.097888,0.090382,0.038843,0.112405,-0.022158,0.040718,0.00188,0.010846,-0.056858,-0.071801,-0.004547,-0.001199,0.004757,-0.026974,0.035423,0.004375,-0.008996,0.008615,0.002514,0.007253,-0.002371,-0.000866,0.005423,0.011929,0.001676
Russia_Kurganniy_LateC:KUG005,0.097888,0.062963,0.001508,0.069122,-0.039392,0.030399,-0.018331,-0.014999,-0.040905,-0.05376,0.00341,-0.002098,-0.00669,-0.041149,0.017372,0.023999,-0.001825,0.004941,0.016844,0.006378,-0.002995,0.006925,0.013064,0.002048,0.00012
Russia_Lower_Don_LateEneolithic:KST001,0.104717,0.087336,0.050157,0.101745,-0.029852,0.03765,0.009165,-0.000692,-0.053381,-0.073259,0.005034,0.003597,0.001189,-0.022983,0.041666,0.0118,-0.001695,0.003547,0.020614,0.009755,0.003743,-0.015209,0.011462,0.018798,0.003592
Russia_MLBA_Srubnaya_Alakul:KVO013,0.10927,0.106631,0.046763,0.089794,0.002154,0.028168,-0.00188,0.000231,-0.033951,-0.046288,0.000162,0.006594,0.000149,-0.024634,0.03583,0.011668,-0.012386,-0.001014,-0.002514,0.00075,0.000125,0.007296,0.006655,0.017713,0.010658
Russia_Nalchik_Eneolithic:NCK001,0.102441,0.108662,-0.024513,0.036499,-0.040315,0.018965,0.007755,-0.002538,-0.058903,-0.048657,0.001786,0.006294,-0.015312,-0.010872,0.016015,-0.006232,-0.003912,-0.002787,-0.00176,0.000375,0.011979,-0.006059,0.011462,0.001205,-0.003113
Russia_Nalchik_Eneolithic_low_res:NCK002,0.081953,0.089367,-0.037335,0.012597,-0.032621,0.023148,0.011281,-0.011999,-0.053585,-0.007836,0.008444,0.006894,-0.017839,-0.006744,0.019951,0.001193,0.010952,-0.005954,0.005656,0.013381,0.006489,0.012613,0.000246,-0.008435,0.013292
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KMM001,0.112685,0.08632,0.038843,0.108206,-0.03416,0.044901,0.000235,-0.005077,-0.052972,-0.080366,0.016888,0.001349,-0.003865,-0.020919,0.031759,0.022805,0.00352,0.007728,-0.004902,0.009505,-0.006988,0.006059,0.002835,0.018557,-0.001916
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KMM002,0.120652,0.084289,0.046009,0.117896,-0.031698,0.040718,0.002585,-0.014769,-0.063607,-0.073623,-0.003085,0.001349,0.000446,-0.024497,0.040445,0.025457,-0.002738,-0.000253,0.004777,0.023511,-0.000749,0.010263,0.011339,0.031209,0.002634
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KMM003,0.106994,0.087336,0.022627,0.108206,-0.02739,0.036535,0.008695,-0.003461,-0.051745,-0.0636,-0.008769,-0.007343,0.001784,-0.026148,0.045466,0.015115,0.004694,-0.012289,-0.008925,0.01063,-0.008235,0.00507,0.002095,0.019521,-0.006706
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KMM023,0.101303,0.132019,-0.056191,-0.035853,-0.037238,-0.015618,0.00094,-0.009,-0.049495,-0.012574,-0.006171,0.005395,-0.014717,-0.003028,-0.007193,0.001724,0.007302,0.002914,-0.001383,0.001876,0.005116,-0.008285,-0.00037,-0.011086,0.00491
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KMM032,0.117238,0.093429,0.028661,0.088825,-0.038161,0.036256,0.007755,-0.001154,-0.054403,-0.059409,0.004547,0.001649,-0.001487,-0.028213,0.038273,0.011138,-0.002347,0.001014,-0.008799,0.010755,-0.00574,0.001855,0.008627,0.02892,-0.00958
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KMM033,0.1161,0.096475,0.013953,0.085918,-0.029236,0.035419,0.002585,-0.003461,-0.055426,-0.063054,0.00747,0.004346,-0.004014,-0.024497,0.03108,0.020684,0.007041,-0.006081,0.001508,0.005127,0.003369,0.009769,0.013311,0.016388,-0.000359
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KVO008,0.113823,0.122879,-0.029038,0.023256,-0.035699,0.022311,0.012221,-0.003,-0.057471,-0.042279,-0.001461,0.008243,-0.020515,-0.007156,0.020358,-0.000265,0.019297,0.002154,-0.007793,0.004377,-0.002121,-0.006059,0.000739,0.000602,0.000838
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:KVO009,0.118376,0.100537,0.046763,0.095285,-0.032621,0.027052,0.004465,-0.014769,-0.051131,-0.073441,0.005196,-0.010641,0.003122,-0.020643,0.036237,0.002121,-0.005215,0.004687,-0.003017,-0.002376,-0.012603,0.009274,0.000123,0.020846,-0.013891
Russia_North_Caucasus_BA:VS2001,0.121791,0.08632,0.032055,0.099484,-0.028005,0.036814,0.001175,-0.006692,-0.065039,-0.066516,-0.002436,0.000749,-0.003568,-0.020643,0.025244,0.007292,-0.011865,0.00076,-0.005405,-0.006878,-0.014849,0.002349,0.000863,0.016267,0.001317
Russia_North_Caucasus_EBA_possible:9NP004,0.120652,0.092413,0.037335,0.10013,-0.03139,0.038766,0.00376,-0.000462,-0.057471,-0.073259,0,-0.001798,-0.000149,-0.022432,0.030944,0.025192,0.004824,-0.006208,-0.00905,0.000375,-0.009234,-0.001113,0.00912,0.014098,-0.007903
Russia_North_Caucasus_EBA_possible:IV3008,0.119514,0.098506,0.036581,0.117896,-0.022466,0.046854,0.002585,0.000923,-0.051949,-0.07253,-0.002923,0.001948,0.001041,-0.010872,0.025651,0.002917,-0.016298,-0.004434,-0.002011,0.007879,-0.001996,0.000124,0.004314,0.01699,-0.001317
Russia_North_Caucasus_EBA_possible:KMM010,0.117238,0.082258,0.035449,0.093024,-0.03416,0.033746,-0.000235,0.000462,-0.058903,-0.064329,-0.00747,-0.006744,-0.006541,-0.030139,0.038545,0.016839,0.001825,-0.004054,0.005656,0.018634,-0.003369,-0.000124,0.006779,0.022895,-0.002754
Russia_North_Caucasus_EBA_possible:KMM030,0.100164,0.088351,0.033187,0.096577,-0.026159,0.035977,0.00376,-0.004846,-0.047245,-0.073077,-0.006658,-0.005095,-0.002527,-0.018579,0.030673,0.00769,-0.009388,-0.008742,0.000377,0.016133,-0.001248,-0.000247,0.013311,0.013255,-0.008023
Russia_North_Caucasus_EBA_possible:KMM036,0.113823,0.093429,0.038089,0.103683,-0.026774,0.046017,0.001645,-0.000692,-0.050108,-0.081095,-0.009743,0.004046,-0.000892,-0.018579,0.025787,0.025457,0.001565,0.000127,-0.003897,0.005253,-0.006863,0.001978,0.007272,0.023979,-0.006706
Russia_Satanay_Mesolithic:SJG001,0.10927,0.034528,0.12181,0.194124,-0.007078,0.051316,-0.031491,-0.02723,-0.003068,-0.069432,0.025333,-0.007044,0.022448,-0.049407,0.030809,0.020817,-0.000261,-0.015329,-0.010936,0.017258,-0.004243,0.013231,0.000246,-0.021449,-0.00491
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic:KT6001,0.112685,0.076165,0.018102,0.106268,-0.060011,0.052431,0.003525,-0.012923,-0.070765,-0.077633,0.004872,0.002847,-0.00996,-0.02835,0.029316,0.015115,0.012517,-0.003167,-0.005908,0.010005,0.002496,-0.005812,0.016762,-0.000964,0.000958
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic:KUG007,0.106994,0.073118,0.015839,0.115635,-0.05878,0.048527,-0.00329,-0.016845,-0.064425,-0.079455,0.008607,0.006145,-0.001784,-0.028075,0.040173,0.008221,-0.009388,-0.003167,-0.003645,0.007629,0.000624,0.003215,0.011955,0.015665,-0.007784
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic:SNG001,0.108132,0.074134,0.012445,0.104006,-0.04924,0.044623,0.00188,-0.016615,-0.071379,-0.080913,0.002436,0.004346,-0.011001,-0.019542,0.033251,0.013524,0.004694,-0.006208,-0.00993,0.004752,-0.003244,0.001113,0.011832,0.003374,-0.006347
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic_o:KHB003,0.103579,0.096475,0.009428,0.070737,-0.020004,0.031794,0.001645,-0.010384,-0.051949,-0.051026,0.000325,0.004046,-0.008176,-0.015827,0.024158,-0.008486,-0.000913,0.006714,-0.006913,0.008629,0.011854,0.004946,0.000739,-0.013496,0.005868
Russia_Steppe_Eneolithic_SH3001:SH3001,0.1161,0.06804,0.03017,0.12048,-0.052933,0.046854,-0.002585,-0.018922,-0.067493,-0.085833,0.013965,0.002098,-0.007136,-0.010872,0.028908,0.01485,-0.019818,-0.015836,-0.01169,0.014132,-0.002995,0.003586,0.001356,-0.003494,-0.005868
Russia_Steppe_LateEneolithic:NV3003,0.112685,0.067025,0.021119,0.10756,-0.05201,0.035419,-0.00329,-0.019384,-0.060948,-0.072894,0.004384,-0.004646,0.002676,-0.025735,0.025787,-0.000265,-0.016037,0,-0.005782,0.00075,-0.006114,0.009645,0.015159,0.005663,-0.005269
Russia_Steppe_LateEneolithic_o:ZO1002,0.09675,0.112724,-0.027907,0.031654,-0.045547,-0.000837,0.014571,-0.011307,-0.051131,-0.037358,-0.009581,0.002847,-0.018434,-0.009909,0.006107,0.002254,0.013038,0.005954,-0.011439,0.004002,-0.000998,-0.00507,-0.003821,-0.013978,-0.000359
Russia_Steppe_LateEneolithic_o:ZO1004,0.108132,0.097491,-0.022627,0.041344,-0.040315,0.02259,0.012926,-0.010153,-0.053176,-0.045195,-0.002436,0.004046,-0.010704,-0.008808,0.013436,0.002387,-0.004694,0.001394,-0.013324,-0.002626,0.005116,-0.007172,0.004683,-0.003976,0.001676
Russia_Steppe_Lola:NV3002,0.112685,0.041637,0.037335,0.126294,-0.05601,0.049643,-0.00893,-0.016845,-0.048881,-0.079637,0.009094,-0.006145,0.009217,-0.0417,0.030809,0.020154,0.004824,0.005448,0.004399,0.003252,-0.018467,0.003091,0.012325,0.012652,-0.009819
Russia_Steppe_Lola:TIP001,0.10927,0.032497,0.033564,0.129524,-0.072937,0.047133,-0.011281,-0.023768,-0.06238,-0.080366,0.008119,0.001798,0.009068,-0.030965,0.021715,0.000928,-0.009909,0.00152,-0.007416,0.009004,-0.021213,0.010263,0.011585,0.013978,0.002155
Russia_Steppe_Lola:ZIM001,0.106994,0.100537,0.02753,0.086564,-0.023697,0.037371,0.006345,0.001385,-0.05788,-0.061778,-0.003735,0.002098,-0.004608,-0.020506,0.026058,-0.002254,-0.004824,-0.000507,-0.001257,-0.003252,0.001622,0.015209,0.009244,0.013737,-0.010777
Russia_Steppe_Lola:ZIM002,0.1161,0.032497,0.047517,0.133723,-0.063396,0.044901,-0.012926,-0.02423,-0.052154,-0.077815,0.011854,-0.004346,0.00223,-0.040461,0.026601,0.015248,-0.004694,-0.000127,-0.002011,-0.001876,-0.021836,0.006059,0.01405,0.016147,-0.003113
Russia_Steppe_Lola:ZO1005,0.103579,0.032497,0.034318,0.134369,-0.07109,0.046017,-0.012691,-0.016845,-0.056244,-0.076904,0.009906,0.003897,-0.001487,-0.029451,0.032437,0.002254,-0.020601,0.004434,-0.004651,0.001501,-0.021587,0.010881,0.013434,0.010242,-0.005149
Russia_Steppe_Maikop:AY2004,0.114961,0,0.0445,0.156333,-0.076937,0.036256,-0.015041,-0.020999,-0.055017,-0.087109,0.022247,-0.004496,0.012339,-0.045553,0.028637,0.020154,-0.009648,0.003421,-0.005279,-0.004502,-0.021587,-0.000247,0.016762,0.004699,-0.003952
Russia_Steppe_Maikop:KLZ001,0.103579,0.016248,0.045632,0.133723,-0.073552,0.047411,-0.014101,-0.026307,-0.058289,-0.06925,0.012017,-0.005245,0.00892,-0.033855,0.04058,0.022938,-0.005215,-0.002534,-0.005782,0.005753,-0.016346,0.005564,0.010969,0.005784,-0.011616
Russia_Steppe_Maikop_Ivanovo:IV3005,0.103579,0.031481,0.031678,0.148904,-0.080323,0.055499,-0.015041,-0.044998,-0.052154,-0.085469,0.019487,-0.009591,0.011447,-0.054223,0.028094,-0.006895,-0.028033,0.002914,-0.006034,-0.005253,-0.014724,-0.011129,0.027607,0.008917,-0.005508
Russia_Steppe_Maikop_o2:IV3010,0.103579,0.058901,-0.003394,0.099161,-0.075399,0.029562,-0.007285,-0.020768,-0.051745,-0.055218,0.01494,-0.007643,0.004906,-0.026836,0.032301,-0.002652,-0.026989,-0.005828,0.005154,0.004127,-0.011355,0.001855,0.01935,0.014219,-0.002634
Russia_Steppe_Maikop_o2:KUG002,0.103579,0.060932,0.013953,0.084303,-0.055087,0.031236,-0.020211,-0.017999,-0.05788,-0.067245,0.01429,-0.002548,-0.010406,-0.025873,0.008279,0.013657,0.00339,-0.005321,0.000251,0.000125,-0.005989,-0.000247,0.00986,0.010483,-0.001796
Russia_Steppe_Maikop_o2:KUG003,0.106994,0.074134,-0.004148,0.063308,-0.062781,0.025658,-0.00564,-0.022384,-0.055221,-0.066698,0.011042,0.00015,-0.002973,-0.018992,0.018187,-0.005834,-0.026598,-0.00114,0.000126,-0.003252,-0.010482,0.000989,0.006409,0.000964,-0.006347
Russia_Steppe_Maikop_o2:KUG004,0.094473,0.067025,0.003017,0.083657,-0.060011,0.026774,-0.012221,-0.023999,-0.05154,-0.068521,0.007307,-0.002098,-0.00223,-0.029726,0.022801,0.015115,-0.007823,-0.003927,-0.000126,0.007754,-0.005865,0.006554,0.013311,-0.002892,-0.008742
Russia_Zolotarevka_LC_BA:ZO1006,0.113823,0.066009,0.04186,0.125002,-0.056934,0.048527,0.003995,-0.012461,-0.05788,-0.082188,0.012017,-0.002847,0.006987,-0.027662,0.02633,0.016574,-0.019688,-0.002534,-0.003771,-0.007003,-0.019091,0.004699,0.014297,0.019521,0.006706
SUS:SUS003,0.080814,0.121864,-0.060339,-0.021964,-0.030159,0.001394,0.00235,0.003692,-0.048677,-0.030251,0.003897,0.011989,-0.026313,0.009909,0.011536,-0.02612,-0.010561,-0.000127,-0.015964,0.007128,0.013476,-0.004081,-0.007272,-0.011086,0.010897
SUS:SUS005,0.086506,0.114755,-0.032809,0.006137,-0.029852,0.00753,0.00517,-0.004384,-0.057676,-0.029704,-0.00406,0.003597,-0.016501,-0.000826,0.012622,-0.0118,0.000782,-0.004307,-0.00176,0.00988,0.01435,0,0.006162,-0.00964,0.00946
SUS:SUS009,0.094473,0.111708,-0.019233,0.007429,-0.023697,0.008925,0.004935,0.000462,-0.042336,-0.034078,-0.00341,0,-0.016353,-0.001789,0.011401,0.000398,0.005085,-0.005321,0.004022,0.015132,0.007112,0.014838,0.003821,-0.005422,-0.00934
SUS:SUS013,0.084229,0.119832,-0.02753,0.01292,-0.032621,0.022869,-0.00893,-0.014076,-0.052767,-0.032802,-0.004547,0.008842,-0.023786,-0.00812,0.014386,-0.023336,-0.01369,-0.008108,0.002388,0.007504,0.017968,-0.00272,0.002465,0.006989,-0.002155
SUS:SUS014,0.104717,0.118817,-0.032055,-0.001292,-0.028928,0.006414,0.00376,-0.005307,-0.051745,-0.04647,-0.002761,0.020232,-0.011596,-0.013074,0.013436,0.002652,0.023469,-0.002914,-0.015335,0.022636,0.007237,0.014715,0.003204,-0.005543,-0.003473
VS5:VS5002,0.097888,0.044683,0.052043,0.115312,-0.034776,0.036256,-0.012221,-0.022614,-0.045813,-0.062143,0.000812,-0.007643,0.006541,-0.038121,0.030673,0.012729,-0.001565,-0.001647,0.011439,0.014257,-0.003868,0.013849,0.014543,0.002771,-0.008502

Оффлайн Arame

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #28 : 23 Сентябрь 2024, 18:13:57 »
Очевидно, создатели КЦ лично общались с Навуходоносором, причем по-армянски.
Что-то у меня завертелась мысль: а с Гильгамешем по-армянски никто не говорил? :)
Какие там вообще самые достоверные следы армянского языка до Месропа? :)

Расмус Бёрн написал статью где говорит что хурритское слово лошадь ešši идёт от армянского слово eš который ныне означает осел но в древности означало лошадь.
Это слово зафиксировано во втором тысячелетии днэ.  Кстати многие митоднк лошадей были привнесены из севера где то 2500 днэ.

В свое время Вячеслав Иванов тоже сравнил эти слова. Многие лингвисты видели это сходство просто они не озвучивали связь с армянским а говорили об ИЕ происходдении, потому что все верили словам Геродота. Вот такая вот циркулярная логика от которого отказываются уже отказываются под давлением фактов.

Оффлайн Man10

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Re: Ранняя история прото-армян
« Ответ #29 : 23 Сентябрь 2024, 18:20:57 »
Может лучще прислушаться к лучщим спецалистам Новосельцеву и Дьяконову? Один из которых сказал :  Есть множество хурритских слов в армянском, но нет НИ ОДНОГО  армянского слова в хурритском. Все потуги привязать армянский к древней истории Армянского  нагорья напрасны. Армения это горная местность, как и Кавказ, Памир, Алтай, Альпы и так далее.

 

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