дДНК из Украины от бронзового века до современности

[Yurgan]

При том, что я не считаю, что все лужицкое население было предковым славянам. Но в недрах него и зародились славяне.

Т.е. образцов из синкретической группы, которая показывает сходство с предыдущей, нелужицкой группой для вас достаточно? Ну ок. Вопросов нет.

   Для меня это не "объект", а "процесс". Смоделированный исторический процесс этногенеза. И он полностью соответствует модели. Это как дополнительная К в уравнении. Главное, чтобы уравнение (этногенеза) было верным. Частности определяют К, т.е. привходящие смешения. И результаты последних генетических исследований говорят о том, что славяне, праславяне на самом деле не очень то и смешивались с местными (за некоторыми исключениями). То есть влияние К-переменной умеренное или минимальное и лично мне достаточно данных судить о самом процессе (миграции) и потенциальном первоначальном источнике (ядре).

Не  процесс этногенеза, а процесс формирования генофонда.

[Селиван]

При том, что я не считаю, что все лужицкое население было предковым славянам. Но в недрах него и зародились славяне.

Т.е. образцов из синкретической группы, которая показывает сходство с предыдущей, нелужицкой группой для вас достаточно? Ну ок. Вопросов нет.

   Для меня это не "объект", а "процесс". Смоделированный исторический процесс этногенеза. И он полностью соответствует модели. Это как дополнительная К в уравнении. Главное, чтобы уравнение (этногенеза) было верным. Частности определяют К, т.е. привходящие смешения. И результаты последних генетических исследований говорят о том, что славяне, праславяне на самом деле не очень то и смешивались с местными (за некоторыми исключениями). То есть влияние К-переменной умеренное или минимальное и лично мне достаточно данных судить о самом процессе (миграции) и потенциальном первоначальном источнике (ядре).

Не  процесс этногенеза, а процесс формирования генофонда.

   Процесс формирования славян (т.е. этногенез).

[Allan]

». Далее, продолжают удивлять скифы («южноевропейцы»). Которые никак не хотят «родниться» с восточными скифами (2 % «плиточников» не родство). Даже в элите. Это загадка.
 

1из 4 восточно-Казахстанских "Скифов" тот который с Ближневосточной J1c2d , по аутосомам полностью похож на современных переднеазиатских Иранцев.
Так что никаких загадок, с юга пока шли на севера , постепенно менялись.

[Allan]

Однако Геродот массагетов в районе Аракса разместил, вместе с их царицей Томирис, про которую казахские кинематографисты сняли кино за много долларов.

Обиталище Массагетов около Аракса согласно Геродоту,
но так же согласно Геродоту к востоку от Каспийского моря напротив Иседонов  у Массагетов была принадлежащая им земля.
Есть один "Центральный Сак" из западного Казахстана(из принадлежащих территорий Массагетам) с Ближневосточной E1b-M84

[Селиван]

». Далее, продолжают удивлять скифы («южноевропейцы»). Которые никак не хотят «родниться» с восточными скифами (2 % «плиточников» не родство). Даже в элите. Это загадка.
 

1из 4 восточно-Казахстанских "Скифов" тот который с Ближневосточной J1c2d , по аутосомам полностью похож на современных переднеазиатских Иранцев.
Так что никаких загадок, с юга пока шли на севера , постепенно менялись.

   Возможно. Но вы же не лезите в форточку дома когда открыта входная дверь. Зачем такие сложности миграции в Западную часть из Восточной части Степи. Надо искать другие объяснения. Например др. варианты прародины.

[Allan]

». Далее, продолжают удивлять скифы («южноевропейцы»). Которые никак не хотят «родниться» с восточными скифами (2 % «плиточников» не родство). Даже в элите. Это загадка.
 

1из 4 восточно-Казахстанских "Скифов" тот который с Ближневосточной J1c2d , по аутосомам полностью похож на современных переднеазиатских Иранцев.
Так что никаких загадок, с юга пока шли на севера , постепенно менялись.

   Возможно. Но вы же не лезите в форточку дома когда открыта входная дверь. Зачем такие сложности миграции в Западную часть из Восточной части Степи. Надо искать другие объяснения. Например др. варианты прародины.

Если по искусству, то Луристанская Бронза подходит на предковую к Скифскому звериному стилю, там  и город Сагванд близко.
Если разговор о Конном воиске, то первое такое в Ассирийской империи, а наёмники там в основном пограничные им Иранцы.
Если о первом Царе Скифов, то жена его Ассирийская принцесса, его клад в Курдестанском Саккызе, и первый источник Скифского письма, использовал частично Лувийские и частично Хеттские иероглифы.
Да и после миграции Монголоидов в Степь достигших Черногоровской и Мезочатской культур, после них в Степи постоянно поднимались Переднеазиатские компоненты.

[kardes]

по центральноазиатским алан2 авторы предполагают авар или гуннов

Где они предполагают, что-то не увидел? Откуда-то со С.Азии и пришли аланы, а потом смешались с кавказцами. Видимо тут видны следы этого.

м.б. не внимательно смотрели, ранее у них все салтовцы были указаны аланами, а потом часть указали как булгар, а аланы2 ц.азии, которые группируются с булгаром2 скорее всего хазары, которых можно будет легко отличить по наличию в.азии в аутосомах и по азиатским однородительским линиям, как и разных ногайцев.

Интересно! У алан три R1b и один C2.
У кипчака (кумана) вот эта ветка  https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Y10755/  У второго R1a.
У булгара R1a.

Неожиданно! Похоже два алана R1b из этой ветки https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y100087/. Почти нет потомков.
Пускай еще алан тестируют, может найдутся более распространенные ветки R1b.

Есть достаточно образцов палеоалан для общей оценки их генетики. Каких либо радикально отличающихся результатов от уже имеющихся вряд ли стоит ожидать. Они продолжатели катакомбной и кобанской культуры(аутосомно кавказцы, основные мужские линии R1b+G2).

[G-Man]

Исходники   https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB64640


G25 scaled:

Код: [Выделить]

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UKR090,0.112685,0.137096,-0.000377,-0.045543,0.017849,-0.018128,-0.00282,-0.006692,-0.006749,0.018588,-0.001461,0.008093,-0.009663,-0.011423,-0.019815,0.013524,0.021383,0.003167,0.010056,0.002501,-0.000374,0.012118,0.003944,0.007712,-0.003712
UKR091,0.114961,0.120848,0.023004,0.004845,0.007386,-0.00251,-0.00094,-0.003692,-0.007976,-0.001093,-0.000487,0.001199,-0.005352,-0.002202,-0.009365,-0.007823,0.00678,0.001014,0.003017,-0.009254,-0.005989,0.005812,0.00456,-0.000361,0.000479
UKR095,0.112685,0.076165,0.042992,0.046512,0.002462,0.013945,0.013161,0.001846,-0.009408,-0.015672,-0.003085,-0.00045,-0.003865,-0.011147,0.0057,-0.000265,0.002738,-0.003041,-0.006662,0.003877,-0.009982,-0.006677,-0.005176,-0.01205,-0.002275
UKR096,0.129758,0.107646,0.059208,0.063631,0.021542,0.025937,0.008695,0.011769,-0.005113,-0.020957,-0.001786,-0.007493,0.003865,0.006744,-0.003122,-0.001989,-0.000522,0.005828,0.003142,-0.001,0.002246,0.007666,0.000246,0.000723,-0.003712
UKR101,0.106994,0.091398,0.050157,0.045866,0.00677,0.014502,0.00517,-0.006461,-0.002045,-0.024055,0.009419,-0.005995,0.008474,-0.001927,-0.001629,0.015911,0.012256,-0.005448,-0.000126,-0.002001,-0.006239,0.000618,0.007888,-0.003253,-0.002754
UKR102,0.127482,0.144205,0.013576,-0.00646,0.020927,-0.003347,0.00987,0.002077,-0.001023,0.011481,-0.002111,0.003447,-0.007433,0.000688,-0.003393,0.001193,0.021122,-0.0019,0.002765,0.010505,-0.003743,0.00507,0.005669,0.00482,-0.000599
UKR104,0.106994,0.064994,0.02489,0.047158,-0.017234,0.023148,-0.004935,-0.002538,-0.018816,-0.025695,-0.007957,-0.001349,0.004014,-0.020643,0.015065,0.017634,0.008736,-0.008235,0.003268,0.006628,-0.013227,0.002844,0.001602,-0.003494,-0.006706
UKR105,0.103579,0.048745,0.042238,0.069445,-0.016311,0.018686,-0.00423,-0.004154,-0.032315,-0.036629,0.00065,-0.009292,0.003568,-0.019405,0.020222,0.005304,-0.003912,0.000507,0.000503,0.004002,-0.013975,0.006677,-0.000739,0.007712,0.002994
UKR109,0.100164,0.050776,0.036204,0.052649,-0.006155,0.025379,-0.002115,0.002769,-0.020657,-0.025331,-0.001949,0.006744,0.003865,-0.014863,0.018865,-0.000398,-0.005998,0.000127,0.002388,-0.015507,-0.008735,0.009274,0.000246,-0.000843,-0.005029
UKR110,0.119514,0.099522,0.054305,0.045866,0.009848,0.024542,0.007755,0.002769,-0.005318,-0.01877,-0.004709,-0.000899,-0.004906,-0.003028,-0.004479,-0.002121,0.002086,-0.003294,-0.005656,0.006378,-0.01672,-0.000124,0.016392,0.000723,-0.011256
UKR111,0.121791,0.108662,0.062225,0.044574,0.036314,0.016176,0.00282,0.010846,0.003068,-0.014032,-0.007795,-0.004496,0.003122,0.004129,0.001629,0.014187,0.006519,-0.002154,0.002514,0.001,-0.001872,-0.001113,-0.000863,-0.000482,-0.003832
UKR113,0.120652,0.103584,0.031678,0.035853,0.004308,0.018407,-0.00282,-0.003461,-0.016362,-0.005285,-0.003897,0.001798,-0.004014,-0.011973,0.0076,0.008751,0.003912,-0.006714,0.001508,-0.000875,-0.00262,0.00136,0.007518,0.006386,-0.007784
UKR114,0.106994,0.116786,0.056568,0.052649,0.024312,0.013666,-0.00141,0.005538,0.006136,-0.008747,0.003897,0.002997,0.004014,-0.003028,0.007193,-0.002917,0.006389,0.005321,0.00176,-0.008504,-0.006988,0.011623,0.004314,0.009399,0.000718
UKR116,0.132035,0.122879,0.076555,0.080104,0.032929,0.034025,0.011751,0.010615,-0.009613,-0.023508,0.001137,-0.008393,0.013528,0.022708,-0.001493,-0.002254,-0.006258,-0.00114,0.001257,-0.00075,0.006988,0.00272,0.011462,-0.015303,0.001557
UKR121,0.127482,0.155376,0.009051,-0.030685,0.03416,-0.018128,0.00423,-0.010846,0.005522,0.041914,-0.001137,0.011839,-0.018285,0.00523,-0.020901,-0.016309,-0.012126,-0.004814,0.011187,-0.005127,-0.002995,0.001978,0.002342,-0.002289,0.000359
UKR122,0.10927,0.089367,0.046763,0.0646,0.015387,0.032351,-0.00423,0.007615,-0.012476,-0.02041,-0.008282,0.002847,0.00773,-0.014313,0.019408,0.017369,-0.00691,-0.00266,0.000377,0.005503,-0.003868,-0.007543,-0.009983,-0.001084,0.003592
UKR123,0.110408,0.141159,0.016216,-0.007106,0.025543,-0.000279,0.005405,0.004384,-0.007363,0.004009,0,0.002847,-0.002527,0.001101,-0.003529,0.014452,-0.000522,-0.004054,0.002514,0.003502,0.01123,0.000618,-0.000863,0.010242,-0.006706
UKR125,0.1161,0.12491,0.070144,0.042313,0.040931,0.022032,0.00705,0.01823,0.012885,-0.016219,0.00065,0.010341,-0.00446,-0.003991,0.008143,0.000663,-0.002738,0.002154,0.006536,0.003502,0.01672,-0.000742,-0.004683,0.011086,0.008263
UKR126,0.124067,0.131003,0.054682,0.044897,0.038776,0.010319,0.00376,0.011307,0.003068,-0.012028,-0.002273,0.000599,0.001338,-0.00523,0.000136,0.000663,-0.003912,0.005194,0.006913,0.006378,-0.000374,0.002968,-0.003944,0.005663,0.000718
UKR128,0.1161,0.152329,0.042238,-0.000969,0.024004,0.000837,-0.00423,0.009461,0.008181,0.011845,-0.005359,0.002847,-0.002676,0.000413,0.003664,0.000398,0.001825,0.001394,0.003897,-0.00075,0.008111,-0.001237,0.006902,-0.001928,0.004311
UKR129,0.136588,0.119832,0.064488,0.061047,0.032314,0.026216,0.005405,0.004615,0.001432,-0.009476,0.003085,-0.010041,-0.001338,-0.006055,0.024701,0.015115,0.007693,-0.006968,0.007416,0.021385,0.009982,0.000742,0.006532,0.016147,0.001796
UKR131,0.102441,0.116786,-0.02489,-0.007752,-0.033545,0.013387,0.00658,0.000923,-0.035792,-0.032985,0.006008,0.006894,-0.011596,0.000138,0.002579,-0.016971,-0.00326,0.005828,0.004651,0.006753,-0.001996,0.000371,0.00493,-0.005181,-0.003712
UKR132,0.108132,0.094444,-0.011691,-0.006783,-0.028313,0.001952,0.003525,-0.002308,-0.03845,-0.018406,0.001137,0.010191,-0.019772,-0.018166,0.004479,0.01127,0.012256,0.003927,-0.003268,0.008504,0.005989,-0.002844,-0.000493,0.008073,-0.002275
UKR133,0.102441,0.108662,-0.016593,0.00323,-0.032314,0.004183,0.00752,0.000692,-0.045813,-0.027153,-0.005521,0.002847,-0.008771,-0.009221,0.006243,-0.002784,0.005607,-0.001394,-0.008673,0.007379,-0.007986,0.00643,0.002588,0.003133,-0.005029
UKR134,0.060326,-0.216308,0.043746,-0.002907,-0.055703,-0.023148,0.00611,0.010384,-0.007363,0.001276,-0.015427,0.005095,-0.004162,0.004129,0.003122,0.00053,0.00013,-0.00152,0.002891,0.012256,-0.0141,-0.001237,-0.008134,-0.001687,0.002155
UKR135,0.097888,0.016248,0.006034,-0.007106,-0.038776,-0.003347,0.00611,-0.002538,-0.03845,-0.016766,-0.000487,-0.005095,-0.005946,-0.007569,0.009229,-0.005967,-0.007302,-0.000887,-0.011816,0.009379,-0.000125,-0.000247,-0.000616,-0.005302,-0.001317
UKR136,0.100164,0.109677,-0.023759,-0.002261,-0.030467,0,0.006815,-0.000923,-0.04295,-0.023144,0.004384,0.014387,-0.014123,-0.003578,0.005293,-0.006762,0.002347,-0.015329,0.003017,0.002876,-0.004742,-0.002968,0.000863,0.003374,-0.008382
UKR137,0.061464,-0.194982,0.044123,-0.007752,-0.038161,-0.010319,0.009635,0.014307,-0.00409,-0.003827,-0.013803,0.002248,-0.002825,-0.007569,0.008279,0.011668,0.007041,-0.002914,-0.00088,0.003126,-0.01148,-0.008037,-0.015776,0.006145,-0.001197
UKR138,0.105855,0.101553,-0.020365,-0.013243,-0.027082,-0.003068,0.00094,-0.006923,-0.043973,-0.024237,0.00406,0.002248,-0.009217,-0.010322,0.005429,-0.01074,-0.004563,0.002027,-0.000628,-0.00075,0.009358,0.004699,-0.007272,-0.006989,0.00491
UKR139,0.114961,0.112724,-0.033941,-0.012597,-0.035083,-0.007251,0.011281,-0.005077,-0.048881,-0.025331,-0.00065,0.011839,-0.008474,-0.017478,0.005565,-0.019888,0.018775,0.002914,-0.016089,0.016758,0.017844,-0.015457,-0.002342,-0.004699,0.006945
UKR143,0.09675,0.101553,-0.030547,-0.018734,-0.036007,0.008925,0.00423,0.004846,-0.048268,-0.028976,-0.000162,0.001499,-0.008771,0.007294,0.014115,-0.010342,0.000522,0.002027,-0.012821,-0.008129,0.000873,-0.002597,-0.005669,-0.000843,0.005628
UKR144,0.059188,-0.195997,0.040352,-0.015504,-0.037853,-0.019522,0.014101,0.017076,-0.009408,0.000729,-0.01088,-0.002398,0.000892,0.003716,0.002036,0.000796,0.002217,-0.00114,0.001383,-0.000125,-0.007612,-0.000989,-0.006286,0.00241,0.013891
UKR147,0.079676,-0.019295,0.018102,-0.005491,-0.036007,-0.012271,0.00893,0.012923,-0.010635,-0.000182,0.002761,-0.003147,0.001635,0.007156,0.009229,-0.001326,-0.000261,-0.000887,-0.010936,-0.013882,-0.006738,0.000247,-0.001109,0.001084,-0.003832
UKR149,0.1161,0.105615,0.05242,0.085918,0.009848,0.038487,0.00658,0.006461,-0.015748,-0.038452,0.001461,-0.001499,-0.004162,-0.025185,0.020358,0.018297,0.004955,0.00076,-0.008547,0.006628,-0.002745,0.005688,0.002588,0.011688,-0.010179
UKR152,0.111547,0.169593,0.015462,-0.045543,0.037238,-0.019801,-0.000235,-0.002308,0.01718,0.041732,0.004872,0.002248,-0.011744,0.006331,-0.020494,-0.006497,0.012908,0.002154,0.006662,-0.013506,-0.011105,0.00507,-0.002711,0.010724,-0.003353
UKR153,0.110408,0.12491,0.069767,0.061047,0.029544,0.017012,0.0094,0.009692,0.001227,-0.023873,-0.003085,-0.004196,0.01115,0.025047,-0.004343,0.014452,0.017471,0.005321,0.003771,-0.001626,0.002496,-0.00507,-0.00037,-0.006266,-0.001916
UKR160,0.108132,0.129988,-0.029415,-0.01615,-0.030159,0.00251,0.0047,0.003,-0.047859,-0.021322,-0.00341,0.013788,-0.019177,0.00578,0.004343,-0.028374,-0.005607,-0.001774,-0.002263,0.005503,0.006988,0.005193,0.002588,0.001807,0.002036
UKR164,0.134311,0.101553,0.065619,0.062016,0.032929,0.023427,-0.00047,0.012461,-0.005931,-0.023144,-0.001786,-0.009442,0.00996,0.024222,-0.011943,-0.009414,-0.00352,-0.004687,0.000503,-0.004002,-0.010981,-0.002968,0.007148,-0.011086,0.007903
UKR165,0.119514,0.11577,0.058454,0.062985,0.036622,0.02259,0.014101,0.034383,0.004909,-0.028976,-0.013803,-0.004496,0.020218,0.02546,-0.013436,0.005038,0.01369,-0.002154,-0.000251,0.000125,0.001747,-0.002968,0.005053,-0.017352,-0.002395
UKR166,0.127482,0.111708,0.070144,0.053295,0.029852,0.020359,0.005405,0.015461,0.00225,-0.019681,0.004384,-0.007044,0.023934,0.027662,-0.006107,-0.009414,-0.005085,-0.000507,-0.000377,0.001376,-0.000873,-0.000247,0.010599,-0.005784,0.003473
UKR167,0.130897,0.118817,0.080327,0.105622,0.040315,0.045738,0.005875,0.015922,-0.005113,-0.039545,-0.009581,-0.014987,0.013677,0.010322,0.0057,0.018563,0.014081,0.002787,0.002891,0.011631,0.006239,-0.000989,0.008134,-0.011568,-0.003712
UKR168,0.12862,0.116786,0.07731,0.084626,0.037545,0.033746,0.00752,0.02123,-0.005727,-0.02442,-0.002436,-0.006594,0.017096,0.005092,-0.002714,0.015115,0.008605,-0.001647,0.010182,0.004752,0.000499,-0.001855,-0.001725,-0.011206,-0.005868
UKR174,0.105855,0.066009,0.029038,0.057171,-0.012002,0.016455,0.002585,0.003231,-0.017385,-0.025513,-0.006983,0.006744,0.000743,-0.00523,0.013301,0.005701,-0.009257,-0.006714,0.005908,-0.005503,-0.011355,-0.006554,0.0053,-0.001446,-0.009101


[G-Man]

Салтово-маяцкая культура







Уточнил ветви у двоих:


UKR137   Верхний Салтов, Харьковская область   Погребение «аланского типа» (катакомбы)   800-900 AD   https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-Y147530/


UKR147   Бочково, Харьковская область   Погребение «булгарского типа»   683-883 AD   https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y178665/  (снипы уровня R-BY60213 не охвачены)

[…]
Захоронения произведены в грунтовых ямах с заплечиками, на которых укладывались плахи деревянного перекрытия, нижняя часть могильной ямы была обложена деревянными плахами. Данные черты характерны для «зливкинского» погребального обряда и достаточно хорошо представлены в погребениях Среднедонечья. Встречены захоронения с такими деревянными внутримогильными конструкциями и на грунтовых некрополях Верхнего Подонцовья. Западная или юго-западная ориентация погребенных «зливкинского» типа в грунтовых ямах является традиционной для праболгарского этноса
[…]

Погребения с «оболом мертвых» на Бочковском могильнике салтово-маяцкой культуры (по материалам раскопок 2014 г.)

[Ильгиз]

Как подозревал, тот "оногур" DA142 из ветки Y52 и не булгар вовсе, а оказался просто средневековым башкиром, из неизвестной культуры.

[Srkz]

Как подозревал, тот "оногур" DA142 из ветки Y52 и не булгар вовсе, а оказался просто средневековым башкиром, из неизвестной культуры.

Ха, у меня одна из первых мыслей была при проглядывании препринта, "наконец будут поменьше склонять DA142 в качестве самого эталонного булгара" ) Но тут тоже ситуация забавная - два разных кластера, в каждом из которых и заявленные аланами, и заявленные булгарами

[Таусо]

Я вообще не особо понял, в какой момент он стал «булгаром» и на каком основании. Иногда и как кыпчака писали. В исходнике он вроде просто как средневековый тюрок шёл, без конкретики.

[Tora_sama]

Славяне я так понял никого не интересуют:
11-13 века Звенигород львовский
Distance to: Ukraine_Lviv_Zvenigorod_WhiteCroat_Slavs_postMA:UKR166
0.01902836 Ukrainian_Donetsk
0.02191059 Russian_Orel
0.02418318 Ukrainian_middleDnipro
0.02489389 Russian_Voronezh_Rep
0.02495274 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02543818 Russian_Voronezh_North
0.02553563 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.02565032 Russian_Ryazan
0.02611895 Russian_Samara
0.02614353 Russian_RyazanMikhailov
0.02621099 Russian_Tambov
0.02629734 Russian_Kursk
0.02658763 Russian_RyazanSpassk
0.02660512 Russian_Kaluga
0.02711079 Russian_Belgorod
0.02783795 Russian_Smolensk
0.02784937 Russian_TverKashin
0.02791390 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02822189 Ukrainian_Pontic
0.02897539 Belarusian_West
0.02911752 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02931123 Russian_Tver
0.02949624 Russian_PskovPorkhov
0.02983842 Belarusian_East
0.02988685 Belarusian

2 образца 16-18 века, отмеченные как казаки:
Distance to: Ukraine_Chernigiv_Vypovziv_Cossack_Hist:UKR165
0.03686358 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.03730553 Russian_Kursk
0.03764689 Ukrainian_middleDnipro
0.03801072 Russian_PskovPorkhov
0.03840697 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.03843087 Russian_Tambov
0.03886254 Russian_Tula
0.03907849 Russian_Belgorod
0.03909692 Russian_Orel
0.03910998 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.03920461 Belarusian_East
0.03931978 Russian_Bryansk
0.03952107 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.03957491 Russian_Ryazan
0.03961228 Belarusian
0.03966441 Belarusian_West
0.03967987 Russian_Samara
0.03968508 Russian_Voronezh_North
0.03975675 Russian_RyazanSpassk
0.03994514 Russian_Smolensk
0.04001993 Russian_Moscow
0.04034518 Belarusian_Polesye
0.04049799 Russian_RyazanMikhailov
0.04095108 Russian_NizhnyNovgorod
0.04101510 Russian_Voronezh_Rep

Distance to: Ukraine_Chernigiv_Vypovziv_Cossack_Hist:UKR164
0.02430554 Russian_RyazanMikhailov
0.02581261 Russian_Orel
0.02602250 Russian_Ryazan
0.02633086 Russian_Voronezh_North
0.02676081 Russian_RyazanKadom
0.02699182 Ukrainian_Donetsk
0.02708118 Russian_Samara
0.02792799 Russian_Tambov
0.02807051 Ukrainian_middleDnipro
0.02839195 Russian_RyazanSpassk
0.02908571 Russian_TverKashin
0.02917197 Russian_Kursk
0.02936618 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.02938291 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02959235 Russian_Tver
0.02994704 Russian_NizhnyNovgorod
0.03094199 Russian_Moscow
0.03144576 Russian_Kaluga
0.03240383 Moksha
0.03243166 Russian_Voronezh_Rep
0.03246004 Russian_Vladimir
0.03256519 Russian_Smolensk
0.03265636 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.03278712 Belarusian_East
0.03295619 Belarusian

И 2 образца из под Харькова 12-14 веков:
Distance to:  Ukraine_Kharkiv_GoldenHorde_postMA:UKR069
0.03796215  Slovakian
0.03930860  Ukrainian_Zakarpattia
0.03966253  Polish_South
0.04276013  Czech_Bohemia
0.04299187  Hungarian
0.04311019  Carpathian_Rusyns
0.04345330  Polish_Pomerania
0.04355535  Ukrainian_middleDnipro
0.04452722  Czechs_Moravians
0.04452722  Czechs_Moravians
0.04508100  Croat_Gorski_Kotar
0.04509357  Czech
0.04549506  Polish_Upper_Silesia
0.04582629  Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.04591205  Croatian
0.04610334  Russian_Samara
0.04619689  Austrian_Carinthia
0.04625628  Russian_RyazanMikhailov
0.04626556  Ukrainian_Pontic
0.04654025  German_Lower_Silesia
0.04656254  Russian_Voronezh_North
0.04690137  German_Thuringia_East
0.04732776  Polish
0.04739657  Slovenian
0.04791312  Russian_Ryazan

Distance to:  Ukraine_Kharkiv_GoldenHorde_postMA:UKR068
0.02301304  Polish_Upper_Silesia
0.02428038  Polish_Wielkopolska
0.02444022  Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.02496774  German_East_Prussia_Masuria
0.02504944  Ukrainian_middleDnipro
0.02533783  Polish
0.02575436  Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02607660  Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.02625875  Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.02669622  Ukrainian_Pontic
0.02690688  Polish_Mazovia
0.02730200  Belarusian_West
0.02762896  Belarusian_Polesye
0.02765869  Slovakian
0.02784695  Russian_Voronezh_North
0.02787328  Czech_Bohemia
0.02789911  Polish_Pomerania
0.02805849  Carpathian_Rusyns
0.02807492  Ukrainian_Lviv
0.02840759  Russian_RyazanMikhailov
0.02872366  Russian_Kursk
0.02882239  Ukrainian_Sumy
0.02886762  German_Brandenburg_outlier(Beeskow)
0.02890409  Russian_Samara
0.02893792  Russian_Ryazan

[Kambic]

Как подозревал, тот "оногур" DA142 из ветки Y52 и не булгар вовсе, а оказался просто средневековым башкиром, из неизвестной культуры.

Ха, у меня одна из первых мыслей была при проглядывании препринта, "наконец будут поменьше склонять DA142 в качестве самого эталонного булгара" ) Но тут тоже ситуация забавная - два разных кластера, в каждом из которых и заявленные аланами, и заявленные булгарами

Там три разных кластера, что для кочевников не удивительно. Если будут проведены исследования по выявлению родственных связей по IBD сегментам, то прояснится кто там алан, а кто хазар, хотя и по однородительским линиям это сразу видно. Трушные аланы  в своей основе и кавказские, и центральноазиатские по мужским линиям R1b, как и северокавказские катакомбники и массагеты.
"О генетических связях между сарматами, аланами и массагетами свидетельствуют письменные, археологические и этнографические материалы (28, с. 107—171). В связи с этим средневековые историки иногда называют европейских аланов массагетами. Как сообщил Аммиан Марцеллин, император Юлиан (361—363) в речи перед легионерами упомянул массагетов, «которых мы теперь называем Аланами» (7, вып. 2, с. 171). Гунны во время вторжения в Восточную Европу в нач. 70-х годов IV в. дошли «до земли Алан прежних Массагетов». Гунны победили и подчинили себе донских аланов (аланов-танаитов). В дальнейшем гунны и аланы нередко действовали в походах совместно. В частности, отряды гуннов и алан присоединились к готам перед сражением под Адрианополем 9 августа 378 г. После победы над римской армией готы устремились грабить римские области и города на Балканах. «А к готам присоединились воинственные и храбрые Гунны и Аланы, закаленные в боевых трудах» (7, вып. 3, с. 239, 243, 262, 291). Поэтому Прокопий иногда смешивает аланов с гуннами (уннами). Значительно позднее Никифор Григора (1295—1360) писал о массагетах, переселившихся в 1300 г. из-за Дуная в Византийскую империю, что «их вообще называют Аланами» (29, с. 197—198). Имя Бала, одного из командиров массагетов-аланов, является аланским. В его основе: bala (скифо-сарм.), bala (др.-инд.), bal (осет.) — «военная сила», «отряд» (8, с. 232—233; 10, с. 284). В июне 533 г., на седьмом году правления императора Юстинина I (527—565), громадная византийская армия на кораблях под командованием Велизария отправилась в поход против Вандальского королевства. В византийской коннице среди командиров был Эган, «из народа Массагетов, ныне называемый Уинами», и «шестьсот союзных варваров, из народа Массагетов, все конные стрелки. Ими начальствовали Синнион и Бала, люди отличной храбрости и твердости духа» (21, с. 94— 98). Ранее, под 528 г., во время военных действий византийцев против персов в Месопотамии, Прокопий писал, что в строю римских войск перед сражением слева «стояли Суника и Эган, родом Массагеты, с шестьюстами конных... На углу правой стороны поставлены шестьсот конных воинов под начальством Массагетов Симы и Аскана...» (27, с. 63). "

[Deus]

Походу Булгары действительно потомки Гуннов