Jasmine: маршрут следования

[Centurion]

Возможно, самый ранний портрет Жасмин. J-гипотеза

Маловероятно. Насколько я знаю - это статуетка Вилендорфская Венера (австрия) из Граветтийской культуры европы эпохи палеолита.

Жасмин собирала цветки жасмина в это время в райском саду. 

[татиа]

Возможно, самый ранний портрет Жасмин. J-гипотеза

Маловероятно. Насколько я знаю - это статуетка Вилендорфская Венера (австрия) из Граветтийской культуры европы эпохи палеолита.

Жасмин собирала цветки жасмина в это время в райском саду. 

Ах! обломали такую гипотезу! 

[татиа]

Направление движения: северо-восток (2). Кавказский хребет.
Есть ли у кого-нибудь свежая  информация по количеству J* в этих странах?

[I2a1a]

По времени все сходится.

[татиа]

По времени все сходится.

По-моему, Центурион намекает, что в этот момент в Европе Жасмин быть не могла...  она все еще оглядывала окресности Леванта или Йемена .
А по времени и правда в самый раз.

[татиа]

Кусочки дискуссии с форума J-mtDNA тема "J1C2"

Jim J.Logan:

J1c2 is an identifier that indicates a branch of the classification tree
inferred from analysis of a large number of mtDNA test results. It
relates to maternal component of human descent from thousands of years
ago. As illustrated here the names all start with a letter and then
alternate numbers and letters for each time we go out farther on the
classification tree. The J indicates a major branch of evolution; we
believe it originated in the Middle East 20 to 30 thousand years ago.
The next two major branches are J1 and J2 which also probably originated
in the Middle East. J1c is a younger branch (5-10 thousand years ago of
possibly less) and J1c2 is a branch of that. We believe the J1c
originated in either central or eastern Europe or on the migration path
from the Middle East to Europe. We don't know enough yet about J1c2 to
say much about its origin. It is common throughout Europe, including
the British Isles and former British colonies.

Harry Watson:

Is it still generally believed that mtDNA J reached the British Isles by two different routes - what Bryan Sykes calls Oceanic Jasmine (by the Med. and up the Atlantic coast) and Land Jasmine (overland through central Europe), and if so, how are these differentiated in the J labelling?

[татиа]

Jim J. Logan:

Harry,

I have not been able to develop migration maps that I can label with
branches of Haplogroup J. It is my opinion that the bulk of central and
northern Europeans (and thus British Isles) derive from ancestor
populations that migrated through the Balkans. Without a doubt there
were also Haplogroup J ancestors that followed the Mediterranean coast
line and then arrived in British Isles by land and sea routes along an
Atlantic coast line. In either case, the migrations were spread out
over thousands of years and there were many splinter migrations along
the way with some going forward, some sideways, and even some back. The
results is that the major J branches of are found throughout Europe.
The maps showing location of most distant ancestors that can be found on
the J public website ( http://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-mtDNA/ )
are interesting, but be careful with any interpretation you draw from
them since the test population is certainly has an ascertainment bias
toward northern Europe since the data was all provided by FTDNA customers.

[mouglley]

Кстати, а хорошая у вас там карта по J1c3.
Даже один с Украины есть. России, правда, нет. Значит, давние родичи очень.

[Centurion]

а где карта

[mouglley]

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/J-mtDNA/default.aspx?section=mtresults

[I2a1a]

Возможно, самый ранний портрет Жасмин. J-гипотеза  . Искусство Верхнего палеолита, датировка: около 40 000 лет назад. «Венера Виллендорфская» (Вена, Музей естественной истории).

Уважаемая Татиа,

Считается, что мито-J появилась в Европе только в неолите.
Создатели "Виллендорфской Венеры" принадлежали скорее всего к субкладам U и HV.

[Шад]

Репост с EngMolgen:

Or at least that's how I interpret Figure 1 of this study:
Complete Mitochondrial Genomes Reveal Neolithic Expansion into Europe
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0032473



So, J's were 4% amongst the pre-Neolithic Hunter-gatherer's and 12% amongst the Neolithic Farmers.  I've always wondered why the cold tolerant J's stayed out of Europe prior to the Neolithic expansion...it's looks like they did make that trek prior to expansion of agriculture into Europe, even before the H's.  I doubt this is the final word, but it makes more sense that J would have been in Europe at that time.  I did a comparison of J in LBK burial sites, and J did rise dramatically during the early LBK period and gradually fell as time went on, however J was also shown to be present amongst the Hunter-gatherers, even early on.  Unfortunately I posted it at DNA Forums and is therefore probably lost now.

Here's my spreadsheet "J's where are you from?" to try and track the subclades of J:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqARKoDx3EVHdGJkd3ptRVhDSll2WHFocmg0SU0taUE&hl=en_US#gid=0

I'm J1c3, mismatch 185G, extras: 5442C 12858T 15758G.  I'd like to compare with other J1c3's, run this tool:
http://vps1.jameslick.com/dna/mthap/

Обратите внимание на гугловскую таблицу, где обобщены данные по субкладам и географии распределения.

[areswins]

J1c1b1a - город Грозный Чечня, предположительно гребенские (терские) казаки..

Существует версия, что терские казаки и чеченцы имеют общее родство.

[Аббат Бузони]

Их тестировали, можете сравнить.

[areswins]

Если б я умел сравнивать))))